Picked up a bad habit - but have it beat, I think

[ells]

Have had the Nomad just one year now. Transitioned from an VN800 Classic last summer with no problems whatsoever, other than figuring out that I needed to move the Nad around the garage while on it rather from the side like I had the 800, which I had ridden for 8 years and 40K mi.

Put a few thousand miles on the Nomad last summer and rode well into late fall and occasionally through the winter with no particular issues. Then, sometime this spring, after taking the MSF Experienced course and a few rides with Dan L. (Not blaming either one, just added to the mystery.) a problem seemed to have developed.

I stared to noticed that the bike was feeling quite unstable as I come to a complete stop, most every time, especially in any sort of turn but even straight ahead. Kept telling myself, it wasn't like this last year, and it wasn't. What's going on??? I had added 2 1/2 inch, Scooter Works risers but just didn't, and don't, see how that would a contributing factor.

Finally, yesterday and today I think I got it figured out. Somehow picked up a bad habit - coasting to the final stopping point and using minimal final breaking and just trying to balance until it wouldn't and then put down whichever foot, or both as necessary. Where the hell did that technique come from?

I had been taught to come to a final stop using just the rear brake and put down the left foot. For some reason I was trying to balance the bike for about as long as possible and then stop. Have no idea where that came from or why it had now become a problem. May have even been using the front brake on occasion for the final stop because the feet were already out - I know bad technique but I was just missing it.

Yesterday and today, I concentrated on change and distinctly come to a complete stop with heavy final pressure on the rear brake - not a too abrupt of a stop, but instead of getting into the balance act, just press hard, lean slightly to the left and put down the left foot. Good solid stable feeling was back, that was it - eureka, just the way I had being doing in the past. Interesting the control you have over the bike in that configuration, as long as leaning slightly left.

On the little 800, didn't really make all that much difference, but is quite amazing how solid the feel and control of the NAD is stopping in that correct manner. I suspect most of you are thinking, "man what a amateur", or " geez, he should have known better than that, thats not how it is suppose to be done". But for whatever reason it just slipped away and I didn't recognize the issue.

The situation probably even contributed to a drop this spring at the top of my driveway but even that didn't make the light go on. I think it was even getting worse as a became concerned about stopping at anything other than completely straight, which is not possible at the top of my driveway.

Anyway, have throughly convinced myself today that that was the issue and feeling pretty good about getting it figured out - not that something else weird isn't to sneak up on me, but got this one nipped.

Ride (and stop) safe.

[fish]

When I had my 800 I didn't like the feel of either brake, the back didn't have much stopping power and the front was real touchy.
I didn't have faith in the rear so I used the front most of the time even to come to a complete stop. Needless to say my stops were not smooth, but the again they never were. Now with the nad its so much nicer but I still once in awhile catch my self using the front to come to a stop. :-[

Ells, I've been doing the same thing lately. I have been concentrating more on the proper way to stop, as you mentioned, but sometimes my " sometimers" ( sometimes I remember, sometimes I don't), and the bad habit comes back. Hopefully, I have this under control. I'll keep you posted.

P.S. I don't know where in the hell this came from either!! ???

[jussmatt]

Thanks for the post Ells.... I usually find myself trying to balance as long as I can w/ my feet up. Of course...it wasn't the way I was taught..and like y'all...not sure where/when I developed this habbit. The fortunate part for me is that most of the time...I can pause for a good 5-10 second at a dead stop and stay balanced. When I come to most stop signs...unless there is already another vehicle visible at the intersection.. I can keep my feet up the whole time. When there are other vehicles present, I usually put feet down since I don't trust anybody else's actions!!

It does give me something to think about though...... I'll definitly be more concious about it!
Glad you got it under control though!!! LOL!

[nighthawk700]

Originally Posted by Ells

I had been taught to come to a final stop using just the rear brake and put down the left foot.

Using JUST the rear brake? I've always been taught (and teach when I teach the MSF BRC class) to use BOTH brakes to a full stop, left foot down.

Granted, on some of the roads around here, because of the slope, I put both feet down, but I try to get the left foot down first where possible, but always use both brakes. Was "using just the rear brake" something taught at the Experienced course?

Not picking or anything, looking for clarification.

Thanks.

[ells]

NH700, No it was not taught in the Experienced course either. I just think that , for me at least, the best way to avoid the little extra front braking that can get you into trouble on a Nomad when coming to a complete normal, non-emergency stop, is to not usef the front brake for the final few feet or so. But my problem was even worse because after slowing down to almost a stop I was using no braking to just keep barely rolling, or stop, and trying to balance, like JustMatt has apparently perfected. Once in awhile I'd catch myself starting to lose the balance before completely stopping and then using just the hand brake because my right foot was going down to stop the lean - not a good situation. Does that clear it up? Thanks for the response.

[jussmatt]

Originally Posted by Ells

and trying to balance, like JustMatt has apparently perfected.

Wouldn't say it's perfected by a long shot!! LOL! One thing though that I did find helped me...or made it easier to stay balanced longer...was I would keep pressure on the rear brake... releasing a little clutch and throttle at the same time. Not much at all...more like "just contact" if that makes any sense... For some reason that made the nomad more stable to me, thus easier to keep upright and balanced for longer periods of time. Keep in mind, I go through a lot of neighborhoods on my daily commute and this is where I find myself doing this.

There was a guy who was one of the instructors in my MSF class a couple of years ago who was about 5'...5'2" tops... small guy! He rode a Goldwing and could whip that thing around like a bicycle!! Doing complete 360 turns that would make Dan proud!! Anyway, he was the first guy I ever saw doing the balance thing. He would come to a complete stop...standing or sitting and hold it for what seemed like minutes!!! I know it wasn't that long, but I can promise you it was at least 20-30 seconds!!! It was impressive how he was able to handle such a large bike for his size.

[macmac]

Ells, Each time I stop I delay for so long as I can, sometimes dead stopped up to 5 seconds when I get that lucky. That is on a paved road... On these dirt back roads I deal with it is rear brake only, and if I stop I just put down the anchors, and drop my left foot.

I live pretty rural, and traffic lights are not common. Most of my rural stops at stop signs are both feet up, dead stop and go.. Illegal in a cops eyes, but in this rural area there ain't that many cops, but I did get caught once, and I showed him and got no ticket.
I like to play in the slow games, riding on planks and the like, but haven't yet become so good as to lock the forks and ride 8's or even circles dragging the boards.. I'ld like to be that good.

I'ld like to find and take a intermeidate course someplace local too... fat chance on that...

[dantama]

If I'm coming straight into a stop, I use mostly front brake with no ill effects. But if I'm coming in at an angle, the front brake makes thinks very touchy. I don't know why exactly that is, something to do with the front end geometry.

At my parking spot in the parking garage at home, I'm always coming in at a hard right to park between my car and a cement column. In that situation I always use only rear brake for the last couple of yards. If I forget, it makes a real touchy stop with my car 2 feet away on one side, and a cement column less than a foot on the other side once the bike is leaned on the stand.

Not a place that you want an awkward stop.

Others experience may be different, but for me the big difference is how you can stop going straight (traffic light etc.) and how you can stop in a turn.

Good topic Ells, and I wish that I could hold a stop like Jussmatt :)

[flightdoc]

Nighthawk......I am an MSF RC too. I agree, a rider should use both brakes to stop. If having to initiate the stop in a corner, with the bike leaned over, you still should use both but sparingly until the bike is straight up. Use more and more as you straighten the bike.
If you are running along at say 5 mph or less, ie: bumper to bumper traffic, I would use the rear, mostly. If you start to weave a bit from moving so slow and have that handlebar turned left or right and squeeze that front brake the bike will have the tendency to want to go down. Another very important item is KEEP YOUR EYES UP looking ahead not down. I'm guilty of this as much as anyone and have to remind myself all the time to do it. When you do this the bike likes to track straight.
Hope this helps. Good subject Ells. Thanks for `bringing it up.
By the way I wish I could come to a stop and hold my bike up for 5-10 seconds too. That's amazing.

vin

[blowndodge]

Why is that a bad habit? I've been coming to a stop with both feet up without too much concentration. I don't like to do one legged stops because more than a couple of times when I've only put my left foot down I've stepped in some slipper stuff like oil or whatever and my foot slid a few inches and scared the crap out of me! There is no stopping falling over if it slipped any further.

Now I come to a complete stop and then both feet come down.

[ells]

The bad habit was using only the front brake at the last instant with sometimes the steering not completely straight and not completely stopped. This was because both feet were going down a little early at the same time I was going for balance with the steering. Like I said, bad habit. The front brake causes an unexpected imbalance as the forks tend to compress a little more when using only the front brake in that situation, and as some here have found out, you might not be ready for it. In agreement here with using both brakes to a straight forward complete stop is best, but I feel a more in control in keeping the balance at the very end of the stop if I keep pressure on the rear brake and but down my left foot first. BD brings up a special case where there may be bad footing on the left and that could be a problem but you can actually lean the bike to the right with that brake pressure and counter that with right leg pressure against the tank to help in that situation or just get a better feeling of control in the stop, try it. At least its working for me, or as I interpret what is happening. Hope this is not too confusing.

I tend to use both feet, because I've got a bum left knee. This is particularly true when I've got a passenger. It's bad form, but it's better than the pain of a hard stop with the left leg down.

[ringadingh]

I prefer to use both feet on tha ground at a stop, and use both brakes. Like a previous post mentioned, you can step on something slippery or on a stone to easy.

[vaccam]

I noticed something similar when I first started riding the Nomad with my wife. I usually stop with both breaks and left foot down, but for some reason when I had my wife on the bike I would put both feet down before coming to a stop and it felt very unbalanced. Once I realized what was I was doing it made both of us feel like I was more in control.

I think it also has to do with how you are connected to the bike more securely with only on foot down.