5th Amendment Rights

[blowndodge]

This is a long video but it is so worth watching

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...85833865&hl=en

[jussmatt]

VERYYYY GOOOD INFO!!!!!

[MarkG]

That was very interesting. I also watched part 2 from the cop side and found it informative, too. I was told by an old police chief years ago that the only answer is "I haven't done anything why am I here." Stick to it regardless of how ludicrous it becomes. Looks like he was right.

[blowndodge]

yes he is Mark! Don't ever talk openly to the police. My son did with his friends who were pulled over for drinking. He wasn't driving but in the back seat drunk himself. They got pulled over and of course he chatted like a bozo. he got nailed too and his insurance got surcharged 2,000 bucks for 3 years! Had he shut his mouth and just made them take him in for a blood test and have counsel present he probably would have avoided all that.

I don't advocate drinking and driving ever but if you've had 1 or two drinks, which probably wouldn't put you over the .08 in California, absolutely refuse to take a field sobriety test and breath test and make them take you in for a blood test. It will always, always be lower in blood and here's why:

You have two things in your favor. By the time the blood is drawn it will be at least 1 hour. The Tech has to hold the chain of evidence after the blood is drawn which means he or she wouldn't be able to run the alcohol test for another 20 minutes to an hour base on their work load.

Thats plenty of time for the alcohol to diffuse out of the blood work.

Still don't drink and drive.

I know our DUI member probably doesn't like me saying that but he knows how the game is played... Still DONT DRINK AND DRIVE OR RIDE!

[lw]

BD,
While not the everyday practice yet, but part of a taskforce approach used on holidays and such Harris County, Texas has streamlined the process to get blood drawn from DUI suspects faster. As part of a crackdown, a Judge is on standby to issue a warrant and a tech draws the blood from the person in custody ASAP, expediting the process. I dont think the "in the presence of my attorney" request holds up against the warrant, but I could be wrong.

Somebody famous once said: "never miss a good chance to shut up" (or words to that effect, but what do I know. I'm typing and I can't shut up!)

[blowndodge]

Good advise LW. California is slightly different but you do have to take the blood test without an attorney present too under court order, but you still need one. You can deny taking one until a judge orders it but it buys you valuable time. I have a couple of attorney friends that have told me they have unfortunately been pulled over and didn't say a word and by the time their blood test was drawn and ran they were all under .08 rather substantially. Alcohol goes through quickly, that's why you piss so much when drinking. Again not advocating ever drinking and driving but that video should be gospel to all of us. Always shut your pie hole regardless of why your pulled over.

[dantama]

Interesting thread BD.

I have instructed my children to not speak to the police without a lawyer ever. There are so many people in prison for crimes that they did not commit, all because they spoke to the police on their own. I will not be one of them, and I hope that my children won't either.

When I'm pulled over, I am very polite, but I admit nothing, don't say where I was going etc. If the cop wants to give me a ticket, I politely accept it and don't complain. Then I almost always go to court and fight it hard. I have become accomplished at cross examination and court procedures, and almost always win. It helps that I never gave them much to begin with.

There was an article in one of my subscriptions this month on this very subject. If I can find it, I'll give the highlights.

More important than you knowing to never freely give information to the police yourself, is for you to make sure that your children know it.

A guy just got let out of prison here in Colorado for a murder that he didn't commit when he was 15. He was railroaded hard. I wish that he knew not to speak to the police as a 15 year old.

Make sure your kids know not to, and really know how to avoid it. Practice it. Their life may depend on it. It is so easy to think, "this is all a mistake, if I just explain...." Don't do it! Never, never do it!
It may end up being no big deal a hundred times, or it might be the one that puts you in prison unjustly.

[blowndodge]

That's why I posted that link Dan...I realized how important it really was an hour after I viewed it and the second one with the PO. My son had been thinking of joining the Navy with 2 of his buddies after they all finished 2 years of college and had no idea what to do with their lives.

This mishap cost him his job, his license and he can't pay the surcharge on his insurance. He signed up a month ago and reports to Chicago I believe in October. Judge actually made him serve 2 weeks in prison to remove probation so the service could take him. I learned that time served removes probation.

Quite a life changing ordeal for not keeping quiet......

I tried to teach my kids to stay out of situations that would involve the police questioning them. Of course we can't watch them 24/7,but on the other hand ,a lot of parents have no idea what their kids are doing at any time. I also have tried to teach my kids that law enforcement is their friend, not the enemy.

[blowndodge]

For the most part they are their friends. But when they pull you over for a possible interrogation and don't know you from Jack Squat,,,,,,at that time one, I would think, would have to put "this cop is my friend" out of their head. If you haven't watched that 20 minute video MS, I guarantee you will change your mind!

[dantama]

Originally Posted by meanstreak031

I tried to teach my kids to stay out of situations that would involve the police questioning them. Of course we can't watch them 24/7,but on the other hand ,a lot of parents have no idea what their kids are doing at any time. I also have tried to teach my kids that law enforcement is their friend, not the enemy.

Meanstreak, being the social workery, fight for social justice type, I may have exposed myself to more injustice information than you have, but your way isn't the way the system works.

I kind of miss the old days when I thought that the world was that kind, but once you know how it really works, you can't go back.

I could spend the next month detailing in 500 more posts the documented times that abuses have happened to people just as innocent as your children. You don't have to be a "bad" kid to get mixed up with the police.

They could be walking past a house where a party was broken up, and get swept up with the kids running, etc, etc. I was first "interviewed" by the police at 10 years old while riding my bike, and was ticketed, then many more more times after that. One time was walking home from work when my motorcycle wouldn't start at 1:00 am. as a teen.

Just walking down the sidewalk at 1:00 am, the only probable cause is walking in a normal manner down the sidewalk, and I get blue and reds and a cop stop to ask me what I'm doing. Had to show ID the whole bit.

You don't have to be a trouble maker kid, to get interviewed by the police.

Now, knowing that you don't have to be one of "those kids" to get interviewed, what could happen if you didn't do anything wrong? You could end up in jail for murder. If I knew where to find the details, I could relate a true story of a handful of guys, in jail for the same murder, than none of them committed and DNA shows it wasn't them.
They got swept up by the cops forcing a confession from one, scaring him to death till he would give them another name once his DNA didn't match. Then they'd go pick that person up, force a confession, find they still didn't have a DNA match, make that one give them another name all in a fishing expedition for a person whose DNA did match. They all got convicted under the theory that they were all there, the cops just didn't find the other person whose DNA would match. None of them were there, nor did they have anything to do with it.

But being completely innocent, to naive to know not to speak without a lawyer, having unfair psychological and physical intimidation used against them, and they are confessing to a crime that they had nothing to do with. I'm sure I could find 500 similar incidents of real people in prison in a similar manner. Spend some time researching the innocence project.

That was a lengthy explanation for why the world doesn't work the way you assume it does, and you "good" son will not have to worry about a thing talking to the good guy police officers. He could be walking home from work when he has car trouble at 1:00 am and get interviewed. Then there happens to be a murder that happened between work and home on the same night, now he is a suspect because the police need somebody, and he was in the vicinity at the right time. Now when he get interviewed again, they will find some inconsistency with what he said the first time on the walk home when he wasn't a suspect at all, but now he'll be a liar who is hiding something etc. etc.

I wish the system worked the way you think it does, but for your children's sake, I hope you teach your children that the police may, or may not be there friend. And in case it is a time when the police want desperately to find somebody to hang a crime on, and it just happens to be a time when they are talking to your child, they better not talk without a lawyer.

If you do otherwise, all of your motorcycle riding money for then next few years will be spent on a lawyer trying to get your innocent kid, who saw the police as their friend and talked (knowing it was just a mistake and all they needed to do was explain) found innocent of the unjust charges against them.

BTW, knowing how the system works, and being wise enough not to talk to the police etc. I still got caught up in it, and I'm not nearly as naive. I called the police as a victim of a crime, explained what happened certain that they would arrest the perpetrator, knowing that they were there to help me, at my request.

Guess what, I got arrested on totally unjust charges, they lied in their reports about what was said. They lied in their reports about what the other witnesses said, and I was arrested. I was the victim! I was the one who called them!

After a lot of money, and tons and tons of stress. The charges were dropped. But it was a life altering event. Prior, I didn't talk to the cops when I did something wrong like speeding, knowing that I could perhaps get out of it later. Full well knowing that I had done something wrong.

It is a life changing event to do absolutely nothing wrong, be in a situation where you legally and justifiably could have killed another person, call the police, get arrested yourself and the others let go. Then read outright lies about what you said in the police reports.

I wouldn't even talk to the police as a victim now, it might get you arrested. If I didn't get the false charges dropped, (and as I said, it took a tremendous amount of time, money and stress) I wouldn't be able to have the career that I now have. I would be prohibited. And it would all be because I talked to the cops, and those "the cops are your friends" guys fabricated their reports with outright lies and arrested me.

At least I'm not one of the ones in prison for it.

I wish I could go back to your world, but it isn't the real world. The cops don't always just want to be your friend. They don't always want to be your child's friend either. There are so many people in prison because of those friendly cops, and they weren't bad people who even though they might not have committed that crime, they were still criminals. They were just regular Joe's like us.

Note to TC, maybe we found what I'm fanatical about huh :)

[dantama]

My wife and I used to argue about whether or not the police could force a confession from an innocent person. She was convinced that they could never do it to her.

Being a behaviour science person by profession, I knew that to almost all of us, they could. She was absolutely sure that she is one that they couldn't.

She was recruited to work for a..... edit (talk to me in person about it).

The end of the story is that she is a firm believer now that the cops could in fact get a person as strong willed as her to confess.

So what about as a witness? If you witness a crime do you talk without a lawyer present? I'm starting to think it would be a mistake in many circumstances, and trying to judge exactly what those circumstances are at any given time and place could be beyond a mere citizen with only the will to see justice done.

[ponch]

--
It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain

Originally Posted by LW

BD,
While not the everyday practice yet, but part of a taskforce approach used on holidays and such Harris County, Texas has streamlined the process to get blood drawn from DUI suspects faster. As part of a crackdown, a Judge is on standby to issue a warrant and a tech draws the blood from the person in custody ASAP, expediting the process. I dont think the "in the presence of my attorney" request holds up against the warrant, but I could be wrong.

Somebody famous once said: "never miss a good chance to shut up" (or words to that effect, but what do I know. I'm typing and I can't shut up!)

[ponch]

I would think if you shut up, they can't make you do anything. I am a firm believer is shutting up under certain circumstances, and to the point that I bet I would drive them nuts.

Originally Posted by Dan Lund

My wife and I used to argue about whether or not the police could force a confession from an innocent person. She was convinced that they could never do it to her.

Being a behaviour science person by profession, I knew that to almost all of us, they could. She was absolutely sure that she is one that they couldn't.

She was recruited to work for a..... edit (talk to me in person about it).

The end of the story is that she is a firm believer now that the cops could in fact get a person as strong willed as her to confess.