Cam tensioners installed - Questions

[dougster]

I just finished installing the tensioners extenders on my 2003 Nomad 1500.
They were both completely out of travel, and there was no sign of wear on the spark plug tunnels. I have 39,497 miles on the bike.

The whole thing went fairly smoothly, thanks to God's grace, and all of you who have posted on your experiences in installing your own extenders. I want to tell you all thank you; your posts were a tremendous help.

Now, I am generally fine with diving into mechanical projects, but, after reading some, I was kind of paranoid about this project.

As I said everything went really smooth. But I kept thinking afterward, "Did I REALLY have it at TDC?" And, "Did it get out of time?"

So I spent the last three hours doing all I could to check the timing. I found out a couple of things.
First, on the 2003, you cannot line the F up in the timing window, and then see the F on the bottom of the timing gear in the spark plug tunnel. The marks on the timing gear line up with the top of the head! ( I found this out after spending a good bit of time turning the crankshaft and not seeing marks where they ought to be, and finally looking in the manual).

I finally figured out that I was pretty sure I had not gotten either cylinder out of time. I did not run into any of the noises or tension I read about, and it turned fine when I cranked it by hand. So I decided to kick it over.

It started just fine, and sounded like normal.

Now, here is my question, for those of you who know what we are talking about. if the timing WAS off, even a little bit, wouldn't I hear some pretty clear evidence of that fact? I.e., What would be the signs of the timing being off? Does it sound like everything went together O.K., from what I have told you?

Thanks for your input!

[Blueraven]

I did mine and NEVER did the TDC thing. I put it in and fired it up and was fine. No issues. You should be fine.

[dougster]

O.K. I took it out for a ride, and everything feels and sounds normal, except a bit quieter, as far as engine clatter.

Also, some of you may remember I had a high-pitch whine last year that I was concerned was a bevel gear issue. Well, now that noise seems to be gone!

I will be riding an extended distance tomorrow afternoon, so I will be able to listen more.

Originally Posted by dougster

I just finished installing the tensioners extenders on my 2003 Nomad 1500.
They were both completely out of travel, and there was no sign of wear on the spark plug tunnels. I have 39,497 miles on the bike.

The whole thing went fairly smoothly, thanks to God's grace, and all of you who have posted on your experiences in installing your own extenders. I want to tell you all thank you; your posts were a tremendous help.

Now, I am generally fine with diving into mechanical projects, but, after reading some, I was kind of paranoid about this project.

As I said everything went really smooth. But I kept thinking afterward, "Did I REALLY have it at TDC?" And, "Did it get out of time?"

So I spent the last three hours doing all I could to check the timing. I found out a couple of things.
First, on the 2003, you cannot line the F up in the timing window, and then see the F on the bottom of the timing gear in the spark plug tunnel. The marks on the timing gear line up with the top of the head! ( I found this out after spending a good bit of time turning the crankshaft and not seeing marks where they ought to be, and finally looking in the manual).

I finally figured out that I was pretty sure I had not gotten either cylinder out of time. I did not run into any of the noises or tension I read about, and it turned fine when I cranked it by hand. So I decided to kick it over.

It started just fine, and sounded like normal.

Now, here is my question, for those of you who know what we are talking about. if the timing WAS off, even a little bit, wouldn't I hear some pretty clear evidence of that fact? I.e., What would be the signs of the timing being off? Does it sound like everything went together O.K., from what I have told you?

Thanks for your input!

[redjay]

I never checked for engine positioning when I did my tensioners. It worked out fine.

[ringadingh]

If you were close to TDC and didn't turn the motor, you would have had the valves closed and been ok. When I installed mine I just went ahead and installed the extenders were the motor stopped and had no problems. If it sounds the same, you did it right. If it had skipped a tooth or two you would definitely have heard and noticed a difference.

[macmac]

You did good........ So far only one of us has had a chain slip. Cog jumps really and you /he could hear it click. What happened then was upon starting the engine the this appeared ok until he reved the up some and then backfiring from the intake took place.

You got exactly what you were after and the marks would be seen upside down thru the spark plug tube windows view which set off the cams as well from being close to where they could jump.

The whole problem comes when you have no idea where the cam IS, and it just happens to be where a valve spring can turn the gear cog when the chain is loosened.

The chain is not tight enough to prevent 1 cog from jumping back, and making that cyl retarded. There is 2 kinds of engine retards....... Valve time and or ignition time...

On Nomads it is almost impossible to get retarded ignition time..... But it is possible to just the chain with no tension and get a valve to close due to a spring pressure.

The cog teeth are very short and the chain is very loose with no tension. In all my years working on engines, I have never seen a looser set up.

Most timing chains can't skip a cog for just letting off tension....

[dougster]

Ring, Yes, I know it was at TDC. I just got nervous when I wasn't getting the timing marks in the place I expected them.

Originally Posted by ringadingh

If you were close to TDC and didn't turn the motor, you would have had the valves closed and been ok. When I installed mine I just went ahead and installed the extenders were the motor stopped and had no problems. If it sounds the same, you did it right. If it had skipped a tooth or two you would definitely have heard and noticed a difference.

[dougster]

Mac, thanks for the reassurance. I honestly did not think I goofed up, but I was still nervous about it!

[dave m]

you should be fine, when i did mine i just made sure the bike did not move while the extenders where out

[macmac]

The area where a decompressing valve spring can close a specific valve when there is 0 tension is very limited. I have seen it happen a lot on 4 cylinder engines, but i was usually yanking off the cly head for some other reason. The chain was about to come off anyway, and easier than hauling out the engine of a Nomad to fix.

A jumped chain can be no problem or a real big problem and a lot depends on if the engine is a crash engine or not. I don't know if a Nomad is or is not a crash engine.

A crash engine means a chain or more likely a belt can break and then leave valves in the way of a moving piston.

The problem doesn't happen because a bike was moved in neutral. The problem comes when a valve spring under tension can turn the cam, instead of the cam pressing the spring.

The idea of extenders isn't a very good factory fix... For us it means getting more use of the chain and maybe the cog gears. The factory offers extenders to other countries but not the USA, and why that is I don't know.

I suspect the factory is not thrilled with the fix and doesn't want to admit in the USA this fix is needed more due to the EPA than anything else, but that is just my best guess.

In the USA my take is we are supposed to install new chains. Another issue the factory probably wants to hide is the stretch in the chains.. Plainly some engineer flubbed it.