Constitutional rights

[dantama]

Originally Posted by OP

Yes please. I will take two!

In my DNC police posts, I discussed an interaction with the police where I didn't give them my ID or any other information.

Some missed the point, and only focused on my taking pictures of the police, and them taking my picture. The point was supposed to be how you have certain constitutional rights, and how the police will try overtly to deny you those rights, or not as overtly try to get you to voluntarily give up those rights.

The point I was trying to make was how you get around having to give up your constitutional rights when dealing with the police, not focusing on the picture taking.

Some have PM'd me asking for more information, which I sent, but for those that didn't want me to know that secretly you are an agitator, I'll post it here :)

Keep in mind, these are rights guaranteed by the constitution. This is the way the founding fathers wanted the country to work, not some radical agitator stuff.

"The Framers of the Bill of Rights did not purport to
“create” rights. Rather, they designed the Bill of Rights
to prohibit our Government from infringing rights and
liberties presumed to be preexisting." U.S. SUPREME COURT JUSTICE
WILLIAM J. BRENNAN
__________________________________________________ ___
Officers asking you questions.

An officer may approach you on the street and ask you questions for any reason. If you are not being detained or are not under arrest, you have the right to not talk to the officer. If you want to exercise that right, simply ask, “Am I free to go?” If the answer is yes, you have the right to say, “I do not want to talk to you” and walk away.

So when I took photos of the frisking, and the officers wanted my ID, most people would think that they are obligated to do so, reach into their pocket and provide it. Next, the officer would probably ask where you were going etc. And most would tell them. There is no way that giving that information would make your life better, and it may make it worse. Why give it to them if it may harm you (even if 9 times out of 10 it won't)

What about car stops?

Once you have been pulled over, keep your hands where the police can see them. Upon the officer’s request you should show the officer
your driver’s license, registration and proof of insurance. Other than providing the above information, you do not have to answer any questions. You have the right to say, “I am going to remain silent.”
Officers can ask you to step outside the car, and they may separate passengers and the driver from each other to question and then compare their answers. As always, every person has the right to refuse to answer any questions.

If you are asked to exit your car, close the door and lock it. An officer may argue that by leaving an open door, you consented to the officer searching your car.
__________________________________________________ ___

Many states, Colorado included have stop and identify laws that allow police to ask for your ID, however, it only gives law enforcement officers the authority to require you to identify yourself if the officer reasonably suspects you are committing, have committed or are about to commit a crime.

They did not have reasonable suspicion in my case, and therefore could not require me to do it. But they will try anyway, then if it comes down to it, you voluntarily gave it to them. Most people won't know that they voluntarily did it, they will think they had to.

The only way to know if you are being required to do it, or if you are volunteering to do it, is to ask if you are being detained, or if you are free to go. If they say you are not being detained, you can leave. And if you can leave, you can also stay and not give your ID.

That is the important thing to know, so you will know when you have to give it, and when you don't.

There is nothing served by giving the police information that can be used against you, even if 9 times out of 10 it won't).

Again, This is the way the founding fathers wanted the country to work, not some radical agitator stuff.

[cactusjack]

They depend on the fear and ignorance of the common citizen to make their job easier. I don't mean this in a bad way. Law enforcement has means, through due process, to find out information. It's just easier on them if people volunteer it.

[dantama]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

They depend on the fear and ignorance of the common citizen to make their job easier. I don't mean this in a bad way. Law enforcement has means, through due process, to find out information. It's just easier on them if people volunteer it.

So true Cactus, I used to be the same way. I'm sure that people reading this might think it's too radical not to give up your rights, and what does it hurt to give them what the want?

Well say for instance you get pulled over for speeding and the cop asks where you are coming from. You say I was just at such and such restaurant and I'm heading home.

Now say that a murder took place between where you were at the restaurant, and where you got pulled over. You are now a potential suspect because you were in the area of the crime when it happened. you wouldn't be a suspect if you didn't volunteer information that you didn't need to provide.

Just one example of how it could hurt you to do the thing that you've always done when you were pulled over in the past.

[ponch]

Doesn't the miranda say anything you say can be used against you? Conversely, nothing can be used for you, so why hang yourself? The less you say the better.

Originally Posted by Dan Lund

So true Cactus, I used to be the same way. I'm sure that people reading this might think it's too radical not to give up your rights, and what does it hurt to give them what the want?

Well say for instance you get pulled over for speeding and the cop asks where you are coming from. You say I was just at such and such restaurant and I'm heading home.

Now say that a murder took place between where you were at the restaurant, and where you got pulled over. You are now a potential suspect because you were in the area of the crime when it happened. you wouldn't be a suspect if you didn't volunteer information that you didn't need to provide.

Just one example of how it could hurt you to do the thing that you've always done when you were pulled over in the past.

[Top Cat]

I have a question, you state;
What about car stops?

If you are asked to exit your car, close the door and lock it. An officer may argue that by leaving an open door, you consented to the officer searching your car.

If you exit your car, close the door and lock it, don't you think that would make the officer think you had something to hide and in turn give him probable cause to search your vehicle ???

[dantama]

Originally Posted by Top Cat (TC)

I have a question, you state;
What about car stops?

If you are asked to exit your car, close the door and lock it. An officer may argue that by leaving an open door, you consented to the officer searching your car.

If you exit your car, close the door and lock it, don't you think that would make the officer think you had something to hide and in turn give him probable cause to search your vehicle ???

It would make him suspicious, but not give him probable cause to search it. They would need a search warrant.

The psychological game that they play is to ask you if you have any drugs or weapons in the vehicle. Of course you say no because you are a law abiding citizen. But even if you weren't a law abiding citizen, you would probably say no.

Then they ask if you mind if they search. Being innocent you probably say that you don't mind. If you are guilty, you stammer and try to say no. Then the psychology goes into high gear and they say that if you don't have anything to hide, why not let them look? etc. etc.

You can avoid the whole thing by not answering the question in the first place. Show your ID, proof of insurance, and registration. For every other question sate, "I prefer to remain silent." When they say why? Repeat it as many times as it takes.

From personal experience, it usually goes over pretty well and isn't antagonistic. The cop will probably think on the first time that "there's another one of those civil rights types" and they don't push it knowing that they won't get anywhere.

They know that violating your civil rights isn't good on their record and don't want to go there. I've even still only gotten a warning after not answering any questions.

Not answering questions is not radical, it's the way the founding fathers wanted it.