Thoroughly frustrated with Nomad issues

[CycleDude]

Hey gang,

I hope someone can help because I am so frustrated. This is a bit of a long story so grab some popcorn. :) I have an 07 Nomad. I bought it 4 or 5 years ago with 28k miles and I now have approx 52k miles on it.

About 2 months ago, I went on an all day ride with some guys and halfway through the day, the oil/coolant/FI light came on. We pulled over and I thought I was overheating, but then I saw that I was dripping oil from out of the right side dog bowl. I took the dog bowl off and a ton of oil spilled out. One of the guys got me a quart to replace what came out and we nursed it back home, taking frequent stops to allow it to rest and cool and not push it too hard. It sounded like a diesel engine towards the end of the day when I got home. Here's a video... https://www.facebook.com/kevinvlacke...23888096014506

I changed the oil the next day and checked the screen which looked clear of any debris. It still rattled like mad. I'm no mechanic, so I went to a dealer to get it looked at. The dealer suggested cam chain tensioners, so I had them changed. It took almost a month before it was ready. I went to pick her up and they said it still ticks a little but its better, which they said was likely the HLA. I drove home, about 30 minutes and It progressively got louder. Another video... https://www.facebook.com/kevinvlacke...24154514114792

Being upset that the dealer took forever, cost a fortune AND only solved 1/2 the problem, I looked for a private mechanic who works on metrics for a 2nd opinion, which there aren't many in north NJ. I went there and he said a top end rebuild was needed for the HLA and would be about 2500-3k. That's about what the Nomad is worth.

Another annoying issue that it only starts cold. I can start it no problem and drive around fine. Turn it off to gas up or run inside a store or something and it wont start when I come out. Come back 10 minutes later and it fires up. Changed the battery and its no better.

Between the noises, hard starting, and crazy estimates exceeding the value of the bike, I'm at a loss. I really LOVE this bike, but I dont know that I want to become upside down in it. Do you think she can be saved or is she a goner?

[DragonLady58]

Well CycleDude....I listened, with my headphones on, yep, something isn't right in there.
Well, your dealer should've done better....the hla's only needed to motor to be removed just enough to take the top cylinder covers off. To pump your air cleaner full of oil isn't just your hla's....thats probably the ticking you hear....but it sounding like a diesel....no no no no!
Your metric mechanic quoted you the price of a total engine rebuild if it were in good serviceable shape. To get that much oil into your breather, your gonna have alot of base pressure, it could've partially ate a valve. I said could have. Its probably a piston by the way the 2nd vid sounded.
What -I- would do is pull the engine out, look on ebay, get another engine with a warranty, for about a grand and stick her in. Some places you can get a good low mileage one thru one of the big bike salvage yards like Fallen Cycles in Fl. There are others around the country, and they usually have listings on ebay.
I'd just bolt her in, be done with it.
Whats suspect is the oil. They should've diagnosed it better for you.
Anyway....you can drop your engine, and rebuild it yourself. But, I'd buy another one, low mileage with warranty and replace it.
You said you though it was overheating. I'd clean all your cooling system, flush it good a few times. You might have had a damaged a piston from either overheating, maybe rings....but HLA's on your old motor won't do the excessive oil thing. The HLA's will rattle your valves, make alot of noise, but will usually quiet down after the pump up. the noisey ones can also get some trash inside the lifter causing it to malfunction.
Hope this helps....

[gv550]

Replacing the tensioners was the wrong diagnosis, as you found out. The tensioners don’t wear out, they only run out of stroke as the chains wear. The better solution would have been to add extenders to the existing tensioners, but this sounds more like a problem with the hydraulic lash adjusters not filling with oil. It is possible the HLAs are plugged or worn out but more likely they are fine and just not filling due to low engine oil pressure. And your oil pressure light was on....... The first thing I would do is remove the oil pressure sending unit and connect a mechanical pressure gauge, you should have 35 psi at idle rpm, 55-65 psi at 2000 rpm with the engine at operating temperature.
Low oil pressure would also result in piston/cylinder scoring and main bearing damage, then high oil consumption and blow by into the breather. If that is the case, the engine is not worth fixing, just get a replacement out of a wreck.

[DragonLady58]

Originally Posted by gv550

Replacing the tensioners was the wrong diagnosis, as you found out. The tensioners don’t wear out, they only run out of stroke as the chains wear. The better solution would have been to add extenders to the existing tensioners, but this sounds more like a problem with the hydraulic lash adjusters not filling with oil. It is possible the HLAs are plugged or worn out but more likely they are fine and just not filling due to low engine oil pressure. And your oil pressure light was on....... The first thing I would do is remove the oil pressure sending unit and connect a mechanical pressure gauge, you should have 35 psi at idle rpm, 55-65 psi at 2000 rpm with the engine at operating temperature.
Low oil pressure would also result in piston/cylinder scoring and main bearing damage, then high oil consumption and blow by into the breather. If that is the case, the engine is not worth fixing, just get a replacement out of a wreck.

WHAT HE SAID! Well, if you'd shut it down when you had your initial problem, checking things over, might've been able to save it. Now, after unknown miles
riding back home and something going wonky....the mess up potential is really up there. Before anything, run a oil pressure check....
If there were any metal to metal wear going on, and its been run any at all, you've flushed that mess into your crank and rod bearings....
If you were to drop your engine now, found some mess, fixed it in the top end, I WOULD do a BG engine oil analysis to see if there were a chance of your bottom end being ok.
With the condition of your engine being a unknown, your riding it with going on, its best not to count on it being ok, unless you pay for a complete rebuild ($2500-$3000). Then, your gonna be replacing the damaged parts, crank poss. needing work, maybe rods if they were overheated due to low oil pressure, heat from coolant system not working correctly....
Plain and simple truth of the matter, the deed has been done, less money, worry, work just bolt in a lower mileage replacement engine....
Then, run your old engine on ebay for parts....($500)....to recoup some of your loses....

[CycleDude]

Thanks for the input everyone.


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[Kawi_addict]

Get on eBay find an engine oooor. Open it up change the oil pump and try it. For a hundred bucks b/w part and gaskets. it's a gamble worth taking. Run it for another couple years till you can do a meanstreak engine swap lol

[Tamej]

If it was pumping oil out the air filter, you either have a cracked piston or piston ring letting engine compression pump the oil to the air filter via the breather. You should have asked here before you paid incompetent mechanic to work on your bike. Did you even tell them it was pumping oil?

Rebuild or replace your engine, it is toast.

[DragonLady58]

OK, Fallen Cycles has a engine, 22K, vid of engine running, warranty....$1400....shipping is $250. Another was Avail in WI for $1000, $200 shipping, one from Tx, $950, $200 for shipping.....so theres plenty out there.
Sooooo, you won't get soaked again:
1. Engine- $900-$1500
2. Complete gasket set- $100.....intake, throttlebody, for extenders later, clutch cover,
waterpump, exhaust gaskets, etc. Fluids/filter, flush, $100....
3. Install/labor @ $75/hr.- $525
Total-$2335
4. Used engine sale- +$500
Total- $1600-$1835

So, as you can see, its not that bad. Question is, how much will it cost to replace your bike with a quality one, if you go the replace bike route??? A helluva lot more....
I can change out a engine in 7 hours start to finish....and thats going at it pretty good like I did at the dealership.

[andyvh1959]

Wow, labor at $75 per hour is dirt cheap. Most shops up here in the Green Bay area charge $100 to $140 per hour. If you are able to do the work your self that lots of bucks saved.

Some careful engine shopping on ebay may find a seller near enough to Jersey to make a drive worthwhile. A 1600 engine would easily fit in most car trunks. Then at least you can inspect the engine before you pay. Also, some sellers have the engine complete to include the throttle body, air cleaner, etc, but if you use components off your engine you can find a better deal. If a Vaquero is really what you want, then the engine swap may only suit making your current bike more valuable for sale as a complete runner.

Here is a Suzuki 1600 Marauder (Mean Streak) engine on ebay, $1300, with shipping:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/G-SUZUKI-MA...sAAOSwo1lcBAdg

[DragonLady58]

Private mechanics are usually $75/hr....thats what I charge.
Dealer mechanics rates are larger, usually $100-$150/hr. The mechanic doesn't see that, the dealership gets that and then they pay you your hr. fee....

[andyvh1959]

Well, you're a hell of a deal. I do know a few mechanics I'd have work on my bikes, but it is very rare any of my bikes are in the shop. My 94 BMW R1100RS has 190,000 miles on it and it was only in the BMW shop once to have the ABS controller I installed (and bled the system brakes) identified to my bike. I like to do my own work, cause I'm cheap, but I like to really know my bikes. Of course, these days the internet makes working on your own bikes much easier.

[DragonLady58]

Since I'm not at the dealership any more My rate is so that I can go slower now....not as young as I used to be.....
I have 1 speed, doing it the right way.....my deadline is to get it back together and for it to be right.....

[CycleDude]

Well, I think I’m going to sell this as a project and get out of it. She’s been an awesome bike but it’s time for something new, namely a vaquero. I’ve always wanted one anyway and it’s a good time for a change.


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[redjay]

Once you make your mind up to buy another bike there is usually no going back.
The itch will be there until you buy the bike on your radar.

[andyvh1959]

Yup, the itch has to be scratched. I call it motolust,...there is no reason,..you just want it.

Maybe ask the dealer that didn't do your bike well, "may" be understanding on a deal on a leftover Vaquero. At least give them the option to keep you as a longer term customer.

I have to admit, looks wise the Vaquero has it all over the stock Nomad. Good luck on your search.