Cam chain extender installation

[pete]

G'day everyone.
On a recent run the bike started to pop and fart on decel but ran fine if I held a steady speed. Acceleration wasn't what I called smooth but was ok if I rolled the throttle gently.
A little bit later on in the day whenever I pulled up to stoplights or just sat and idled I could hear a noise from around the rear jug...it sounded like what has been described on this forum as the cam chain jumping/slapping ?... it would happen roughly every 20 seconds or so when idling. A "choonk" sound.
A recent check of the cam tensioners revealed they were on their last legs so nursed bike home...on the stand it went...extenders went in. I followed the instructions offered on here and also followed the TDC method. Installation went great all without a hitch.
However, I still have the intermittent "slap" happening.
Now, the bike is still on the stand and I would like some advice before I do anything else.
Should I redo the extender install ?
One thing that was odd on front install was when putting long spring with cap on... I heard the ratchet/rod go in from the spring pressure but read that was normal from a tips section.
This did not happen to the rear install.
Am thinking of putting the bike in gear while on stand but not sure if that poses a risk.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Cheers and beers, Pete.

[Bud2rat]

If you didn't hear the click and snap when you installed the rear, Id would redo the rear cylinder.

[redjay]

If you take the cap off the rear tensioner does it look like the ratchet (pawl) assembly has extended any ? If I remember correctly you have to loosen and then tighten the small screw that holds the assembly retracted when doing the install ?

[pete]

Yep, heard the click and snap/zip on both cylinders Bud2rat.
Redjay I am going to take both caps off tomorrow after work to see if really extended.
Just hope the cam chain hasn't jumped a tooth but I'm sure the bike would run pretty bad all the time.
Thanks, Pete.

[Sin City Stan]

I heard both of mine click/snap when after changing each one I rotated the crank.

[Rasta]

Originally Posted by Sin City Stan

I heard both of mine click/snap when after changing each one I rotated the crank.

same here Stan!

My thought when I read the start of the post was if you were hearing the normal clunking these bikes make or some other thing besides the chain.

[pete]

Well had another crack at them both today. Followed same procedure with TDC, heard the click/zip again but still no love :(
Oh and rotated engine by hand on both occasions. Heard what I believe to be the slack taken up in chain.. a quick clicking noise for an instant.
Also something I noticed tonight which I forgot about... when it does it little slap/clunk thingy noise, the motor misfires. About every 10 seconds or so. Hell I hope it hasn't jumped a tooth !

Rasta, I know what you mean by normal engine noises and you get used to them after a while. Had the bike since new 2007. This little gremlin is something entirely new unfortunately.
Well, off to ponder over a beer, cheers guys.

[tomm]

Hi Pete,
Don't think you slipped a tooth. Mine did (several in fact), but had different symptoms. (Had starting, but idled OK. Backfired through intake if revved and no power.) I was just lucky I didn't have the piston hit the valves. I'm wondering if for you, the motor misfires causing the clunky, thingy noise, not the other way around. Maybe something electrical (bad sensor or ignition) or a fuel injector.

There is a way to check if the timing might have slipped without pulling the engine though. You'll need to remove the left side engine cover for access to the timing window and so you can spin the engine by hand. Also, the spark plug tube. See below. The F (or R for the rear jug) with the line and paint mark is the one the is supposed to line up with the top of the head when the valves are timed correctly and the cylinder is at TDC compression. The F mark is 90 degrees clockwise of the F with the line and paint mark, and would therefore be at the top of the gear. Rotating the crank once rotates the camshaft 180 degrees, puts the F mark with the line and paint mark in line with the top of the cylinder head but on the other side, and puts the F mark at the bottom of the gear. Compare the two cylinders if you think one is off.

****************************

Although it isn't foolproof, there is a way to determine if the valve timing may have slipped by removing the spark plug tubes. If you do, you can see the very bottom of the camshaft gear. You will need a bright light, and a small mirror is helpful. If you spin the engine by hand, you will see the following marks appear at the bottom of the gear: an F or an R (front or rear jug) with a line and a paint mark, an F or an R, and a line. You will also see an F and R appear in the timing window. Spin the engine until the F appears in the timing window. Then look for the F on the bottom of the gear for the front jug. Don't confuse the F for the F with the line and paint mark. If you don't see it, spin the engine until the F appears again in the timing window. You should then see the F on the bottom of the gear. If you don't see it either time, you may have a problem. It should appear every other spin of the crank. When you see it, the piston should be at TDC exhaust. When you don't, the piston should be at TDC compression. Do the same for the rear cylinder, but look for an R instead of an F.

Originally Posted by pete

Well had another crack at them both today. Followed same procedure with TDC, heard the click/zip again but still no love :(
Oh and rotated engine by hand on both occasions. Heard what I believe to be the slack taken up in chain.. a quick clicking noise for an instant.
Also something I noticed tonight which I forgot about... when it does it little slap/clunk thingy noise, the motor misfires. About every 10 seconds or so. Hell I hope it hasn't jumped a tooth !

Rasta, I know what you mean by normal engine noises and you get used to them after a while. Had the bike since new 2007. This little gremlin is something entirely new unfortunately.
Well, off to ponder over a beer, cheers guys.

[pete]

Hi Tomm, I reckon I'll give the valve timing check a go as per your explanation.

Although what I thought was unrelated, electrical, as you mentioned maybe the way to explore because I have a short in my accessory line somewhere. Classical hot wire to ground symptoms....whenever I plug something into the headlight/under seat accessory lead.... the 10 amp fuse blows in behind the right side cover. I say unrelated only because the fuse problem was known to me but bike ran ok with no clunk noise until later on in the day on last bike run.

Gee's, all this great weather ( 28-40 celcius) and my baby's stuck on a stand lol

I appreciate all the suggestions and help, thanks.
Pete.

[redjay]

Think about us in Canada when you are out riding in 28 to 40c weather. It was -20c on the way home from work today !

[pete]

-20c ??? buggar that mate...you guys must have balls of steel to ride in that weather...well maybe icicles lol
0c is about the coldest we get here.... and no snow. Good ol sunny Perth :)

[redjay]

We dont ride in -20c weather. My bike is usually in storage from late October till April.

[pete]

Well, off to the eastern side of Aus for a few weeks over Christmas so will pick up this thread again in January sometime. Just don't have the time to spend on my bike right now with all the organising to do.
Looking forward to the 3 day roadtrip with my girls thou :)
Merry Christmas everyone and travel safe.
Pete.

[pete]

Gday everyone and Happy (belated) New Year.
Finally got around to spending time on the nomad this week.

First of all, the nad is purring like a kitten. I eliminated the electrical short 1st (was actually a dudd bit of equipment that plugged into the power socket that was the cause).

Secondly I checked the valve timing marks as outlined by tomm....all spot on.

And last.... well what tomm said about the engine misfiring causing the strange sound got me thinking back to the day it happened. I was so focused on listening to the strange slap sound that I didn't notice the engine misfiring. It had actually been doing it all along.
Then a light went on over my head.....hmmm, recall engine revs going up and down wildly for a few seconds just before shooting off down one of the backroads.... vacuum leak !
So off came chuck's intake and there it was..one of the rubber caps over the vacuum hose had been sucked off into the engine.
So new cap put on, everything else bolted back on and hey presto....purrs very nicely now.

Tomm, thank you for steering me in the right direction...owe you a beer.
All easy fix's in the end but would have been a pain in the arse to figure out if not for all the info offered and shared by the members on this forum..... so thank you all.

[HwyRider]

Now you can enjoy that 100 degree summer weather and get out for a ride.