Guys with 1700 heat problems, let me know here.

[IndyRay]

Ok, I've seen enough and received enough emails to know there is a real issue for some of these bikes. These are water cooled bikes and should not go into the red if your in traffic for a bit or working a marathon. That's why most of us went with a water cooled bike instead of other options. I was an MSF instructor and water cooled bikes should be able to work in the course at slow speeds without overheating unless there's a problem. As a former GM of a dealership, I know that we have to provide Kawi with enough input and info to force their hand. What I'm asking is for those of you that have the same problem to reply here and get any others from other sites to consolidate their info here or they can email me directly. I will take the info and put it together then start hammering away at Kawi. Sooner or later Kawi and the rep will have to deal with it or we make it tougher for them to keep selling 1700's without addressing the problem. I don't want another guy shelling out the cash I did or taking a loan out and then being told he just lost 40% of his investment and to top it off you can't enjoy riding it. Pass the info, at some point I will probably need contact info for everyone. for now lets just compile a list to add them up. Thanks and I will keep everyone posted.

[majeff]

Originally Posted by IndyRay

Ok, I've seen enough and received enough emails to know there is a real issue for some of these bikes. These are water cooled bikes and should not go into the red if your in traffic for a bit or working a marathon. That's why most of us went with a water cooled bike instead of other options. I was an MSF instructor and water cooled bikes should be able to work in the course at slow speeds without overheating unless there's a problem. As a former GM of a dealership, I know that we have to provide Kawi with enough input and info to force their hand. What I'm asking is for those of you that have the same problem to reply here and get any others from other sites to consolidate their info here or they can email me directly. I will take the info and put it together then start hammering away at Kawi. Sooner or later Kawi and the rep will have to deal with it or we make it tougher for them to keep selling 1700's without addressing the problem. I don't want another guy shelling out the cash I did or taking a loan out and then being told he just lost 40% of his investment and to top it off you can't enjoy riding it. Pass the info, at some point I will probably need contact info for everyone. for now lets just compile a list to add them up. Thanks and I will keep everyone posted.

You are right the Kawi reps and engineers need to correct the 1700 issues or design a new bike or they will lose customers. I will repeat a previous statement: I bought a new 2010 Voyager back in 2010 and got rid of it after 8 months because of what I call poor design. 1Driver's seating position places you up on the gas tank, 2:transmission shifting banging clunk, first three gears, 3: heat from motor, 4: rake angle only 30° / 7.0 in. makes bike hard to control at slow speed, 5: not speedy take off or passing power, all Torque for trailer and passenger, 6: small fuel tank for big heavy bike. 7: Air flow "buffeting". The bike is a good looking bike but looks don't make it a good bike. Just my opinion!.

[jestephens]

I have '11 Vaquero. - I would agree they are hotter than they need to be.

I've gotten mine tolerable with new exhaust. My opinion is the super-restrictive exhaust added to the heat. The large catalytic converters in each muffler held a lot of heat too.

[DarkStar]

I've read your posts and have not responding until this point, in my opinion you've not done your homework before purchase, a bit of research would have told you this bike isn't what I'd actually call water-cooled, I'd call it water assisted... the heads are water-cooled, the jugs are air cooled which makes the water cooling marginal at best thus by its very nature, displacement and design she's going to feel and be hotter at slow speeds.

As I recall Harley had to contend with a class action suit regarding engine heat, that made me laugh too, people buying things and having no idea how they actually work. If you're looking to complain why not start with the EPA and the lean air and fuel mixtures manufacturers are forced to contend with.

My Vaquero runs at the 1/4 line on the temp gauge since I took matters in my own hands and corrected the lean condition forced on this bike. So, to answer your post, did I have heat? Yes, it's the very nature of the beast. Did I correct it? Yes. Did I blame MaKawi for design flaws? Hell no, I blame the nanny-state...

[crazygene49]

Well said DarkStar.

[ponch]

Rake angle is too small? The HD touring bikes have smaller rake angles and handle even better at low speeds. The Voyager has a smaller angle than the 1600 and handles way better at low speeds than the 1600.

IMO, Kawasaki design the Voyager to be more like HD in many ways instead of being unique. What they may have gotten is neither a logical path from existing kawasaki DNA and it's not a HD. John Hoover was the man behind the Vulcan Classic line. I have to wonder what he thinks now that he is retired and out of the game. He left Kawasaki when they changed directions in design of the Vulcans. Originally, his vision was to make a cruiser that might be what a modern Indian would be today. This isn't it.

That said, the heat issue should be easy to fix compared to the other issues. If Kawasaki can make a ZX10R with all that technology in it, they should be able to make this better.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

I've read your posts and have not responding until this point, in my opinion you've not done your homework before purchase, a bit of research would have told you this bike isn't what I'd actually call water-cooled, I'd call it water assisted... the heads are water-cooled, the jugs are air cooled which makes the water cooling marginal at best thus by its very nature, displacement and design she's going to feel and be hotter at slow speeds.

As I recall Harley had to contend with a class action suit regarding engine heat, that made me laugh too, people buying things and having no idea how they actually work. If you're looking to complain why not start with the EPA and the lean air and fuel mixtures manufacturers are forced to contend with.

My Vaquero runs at the 1/4 line on the temp gauge since I took matters in my own hands and corrected the lean condition forced on this bike. So, to answer your post, did I have heat? Yes, it's the very nature of the beast. Did I correct it? Yes. Did I blame MaKawi for design flaws? Hell no, I blame the nanny-state...

I have to wonder why they didn't water cool the cylinders as well.

[tazfl]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

My Vaquero runs at the 1/4 line on the temp gauge since I took matters in my own hands and corrected the lean condition forced on this bike. So, to answer your post, did I have heat? Yes, it's the very nature of the beast. Did I correct it? Yes. Did I blame MaKawi for design flaws? Hell no, I blame the nanny-state...

Darkstar, what did you do to correct the lean condition, add a fuel management device? Is that the only thing you did to deal with the heat?

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by tazfl

Darkstar, what did you do to correct the lean condition, add a fuel management device? Is that the only thing you did to deal with the heat?

I replaced the stock exhaust with V&H slash cuts, while I had the exhaust system apart I wrapped the header to prevent heat from radiating around the engine, intake, and my right leg... That alone made a large difference in comfort. I installed a PCV and have worked up a map that's giving great performance and mileage. As I made each change there was a difference with heat, but the biggest aid to cooler running was removing the stock left and right dog bowls and adding a Thunder round intake. Air flow over the cooling fins has increased and the area between the jugs in now open... now the air can actually get to the engine...

I will be flushing the cooling system and refilling with Engine Ice later this month to give the cooling system every chance to be as efficient as possible, if you look at page 4-4 of the Vaquero service manual you can see a diagram of the limited cooling flow, but the changes made so far have vastly improved how 'hot' this machine operates...

The Vaquero reminds me of my old HD's... it needs some lovin' here and there to bring out the potential and the effort is well worth it in the end...

[ponch]

Originally Posted by DarkStar

I replaced the stock exhaust with V&H slash cuts, while I had the exhaust system apart I wrapped the header to prevent heat from radiating around the engine, intake, and my right leg... That alone made a large difference in comfort. I installed a PCV and have worked up a map that's giving great performance and mileage. As I made each change there was a difference with heat, but the biggest aid to cooler running was removing the stock left and right dog bowls and adding a Thunder round intake. Air flow over the cooling fins has increased and the area between the jugs in now open... now the air can actually get to the engine...

I will be flushing the cooling system and refilling with Engine Ice later this month to give the cooling system every chance to be as efficient as possible, if you look at page 4-4 of the Vaquero service manual you can see a diagram of the limited cooling flow, but the changes made so far have vastly improved how 'hot' this machine operates...

The Vaquero reminds me of my old HD's... it needs some lovin' here and there to bring out the potential and the effort is well worth it in the end...

Did you remove the air injection and did you use the autotune?

[DarkStar]

I did block off the AIS and plan on removing it completely later this season, I'd like to find some plates for the covers to give the engine a decent look. I didn't use AutoTune, the PCV is the 17-006 fuel only model and with a bit of experimentation I've tweaked up a map giving some great performance, near zero popping and 42-44 MPG actual calculation...

Edit to add: One thing I'm also going to do is add Racnray's switch for fan control, he posted up a mod that allows him to turn on the fan manually which seems prudent, instead of allowing everything to get hot then the fan cycles on he's using a switch to bring the fan on before it's gotten hot...

[Monkeyman]

What controls when the fan comes on? I'm assuming some sort of temp switch. Perhaps you can swap that out with something else or add a diode/resistor/whatever in line somehow to fool the system into turning the fan on at a lower temp. I'd hate to have to rely on a switch. Either I'd forget to turn it on or I'd end up leaving it on and burn out the motor prematurely.

[ponch]

If just the heads are water cooled, then there's only so much heat the radiator can remove from the engine. Sounds like it needs more air flow around the jugs if they are just air cooled, amongst other things. Vtwins don't cool as well as the front cylinder blocks the airflow from the rear one. Put very lean fuel calibrations with catalytic converters and you'll get some extra heat. I wonder if an oil cooler would help? Thing is, where would one mount it?

I have to agree with Darkstar on the nanny state angle, but it affects all motorcycle and car manufacturers. Even BMW is going to a water cooled boxer twin due to the regs. Not that water cooling is a bad thing in my mind, but a lot of the traditionalists aren't happy.

[IndyRay]

Darkstar, I fell forward full tilt on the sword for not waiting until I found a dealer with test rides. As I stated, "my bust" right up front. However, when I see the brouchure that tells me "liquid cooled" and see a radiator, I assume it will run like the rest of the liquid cooled vtwins I've had. I'm not a mechanic or an engineer so that's how I interpreted it. I could complain to the EPA but that won't help anyone with this particular problem. I'm stuck now and will have to follow the recipe you've laid out: wrap, PCV, exhaust, air intake, etc and another thousand dollars or more hopefully I'll have a bike I can truely enjoy riding. I'm just of the mindset that when a guy drops that much on a bike you shouldn't have to spend that much to deal with a heating issue. To boot, when Kawi or any other company puts out a product that from info received is not an isolated incident, them and the dealer should try to help instead of denying they've ever heard of it. Of course that's just an old country boy's opinion and you know how those are. ha! I've got some pipes to wrap and more money to spend.....

[ponch]

Originally Posted by IndyRay

Darkstar, I fell forward full tilt on the sword for not waiting until I found a dealer with test rides. As I stated, "my bust" right up front. However, when I see the brouchure that tells me "liquid cooled" and see a radiator, I assume it will run like the rest of the liquid cooled vtwins I've had. I'm not a mechanic or an engineer so that's how I interpreted it. I could complain to the EPA but that won't help anyone with this particular problem. I'm stuck now and will have to follow the recipe you've laid out: wrap, PCV, exhaust, air intake, etc and another thousand dollars or more hopefully I'll have a bike I can truely enjoy riding. I'm just of the mindset that when a guy drops that much on a bike you shouldn't have to spend that much to deal with a heating issue. To boot, when Kawi or any other company puts out a product that from info received is not an isolated incident, them and the dealer should try to help instead of denying they've ever heard of it. Of course that's just an old country boy's opinion and you know how those are. ha! I've got some pipes to wrap and more money to spend.....

You have to remember that the dealer is the manufacturer's customer, not you.