clutch not engaging

[Aussiepatch]

new thread on new problem on my rebuild......

So I got my 03 Nomad back together, starts good runs good, but now no clutch engaging.
As soon as i go to engage gear with clutch lever fully engaged with engine running it stalls, if it doesn't stall its moving as though clutch not engaged.

Clutch pack was pulled fully complete, and reinstalled as it was pulled. line has been bled twice but still not working.
Lever/master does not feel as firm as it did prior to disconnection. seems like it is engaging when half out rather than when briefly released.

Wondering if this is a case of air in line and have to persist, have to rebuild master cylinder, or something else.

Any thoughts, ideas appreciated

Oh, I read the shop manual and it is no help!

[DragonLady58]

Its probably the kickstand safety switch, or the clutch switch....just bypass them and see if things work....should....and let us know....
After one messes up, I then bypass the kickstand/clutch ....I normally leave the bike down sensor active just in case I go down, keeps the arms and legs from being all manner of jacked up by a fast moving rear wheel....
They are located behind or underneath the kickstand mounting bracket, the clutch switch in located directly under the clutch lever....just bypass them....
I also have a oil pressure cutout switch switch hooked to the fuel pump....the small older vega pressure switch from the 70's.....get them thru O'Reillys really cheap....usually in stock.
I put them on my Zero turn mowers, truck, other bikes.
Has saved my engine on more than one occassion....

[MAS Tequila]

I'll bet one or more limiter springs is out of place.

Remember they go ()( or )().

[DragonLady58]

Lever/master does not feel as firm as it did prior to disconnection. seems like it is engaging when half out rather than when briefly released.


I didn't see that part....probably what MAS said....

[BrokeAss]

Originally Posted by DragonLady58

I also have a oil pressure cutout switch switch hooked to the fuel pump

That's absolutely brilliant! I am so utterly frustrated that in this modern age we don't even have an oil level monitoring system on 99%+ of vehicles, the dummy light comes on after damage is likely already done. I suppose it's not in a manufacturer's best interest to prevent the destruction of their product when it almost certainly guarantees another sale.

[Aussiepatch]

Update...wires to kickstand safety appear dead. Used test light and is showing as not live to switch. So what would cause that?
Also no live circuit at clutch lever.
Got the tip over switch circuit tested. It's live to the tip relay.
How do I bypass the tip relay. I'm familiar with 2wire loop but not 3.
Also have a wave variance tunnel bolted to the front of the left side foot plate just in front of kick changer, which appears to not work but has live circuit to it?
Oh I did partially drop the bike while it's been sitting with no engine in it. Not sure if that would cause tip sensor failure?
Thanks again so far!

[Aussiepatch]

okay, hears where Ive got to....springs were out of place! Corrected,put back together, I've got a lot more pressure on lever. Almost too much, but hard to say, its been soo long since i rode this thing. Also at a stop for the moment with the testing/re bleed because the lever broke after about 4 pulls, pulled it all apartcleaned/tested, put back together. So right now, I know I've got improvement, but I don't know if we are working yet! So now Ive got to chase a lever and thermstat. Pulled the stat and housing to clean, silly me didnt check before test start. was all gummed up with oil/water crap. Decided to get a new one seeing as im all apart!

[Aussiepatch]

So I've got the new lever installed. Spent several hours bleeding the line again. Still can't get it to diengage with lever in.
I'm thinking that the stand safety is engaged,next will be to put cluth cover back on, fill the thing with oil again, then reinstall the tip over switch, turn the electrical on and see what happens. Then if need be go over the kickstand safety.
I think I possibly have no power to the stand switch. If not sure where to look to solve.

Suggestions with this appreciated.

[Aussiepatch]

New limiter springs installed,checked all safety switches, cleaned out master cylinder just shy of full disassemble. But still no release.
I've got clutch cover off and watched the clutch pack movement while pulling on lever. Looks like its not getting enough pressure from the slave cylinder.Not sure why?
Lever feels softer than should, kinda like not enough pressure at slave. I'm thinking the bleeder nipple may not be sealing properly. I've noticed when using a bleeder pressure pump that even with the nipple firmly screwed tight that there is bubbly fluid still coming out....hence my thinking a nipple problem?
Have also pulled on lever with hand over the opening with nipple removed, pressure is super good when doing so.
other thought is slave cylinder not fully operating??

Any suggestions from here?

[Aussiepatch]

Done a little more digging.... is there supposed to be a rod that protrudes to the slave cylinder? Ive pulled the Slave off to check its not stuck/seized. Its working fine, but from all the hunting i can do, where i think there should be a rod, just protruding through the opening, there is not.
This is way deeper than I've ever been in mechanics, so trying to figure out all the pieces as i go.
Ran out of time for today, but will be taking clutch pack off again to look at all the pieces and make sure nothing is missing.

If there is supposed to be a rod where I think, where would it have gone? broken in the case?

On the positive, this could all be as it should, and I just have a leaking pressure line, and not quite getting it all assemble as detailed as I should.
A lot of questions and investigation, because the Kawasaki manual does not show a great deal of detail with some of this detailed componentry. At least not enough for me!

[MrMikey]

Lever feels softer than should, kinda like not enough pressure at slave.

I'm assuming the Nomad is the same as my Voyager as far as the clutch goes, Without the rod there's nothing for the slave to push on which would mean no back pressure. Can't see how it'd break
Look at 0.30 on this video ....Mike

[Aussiepatch]

Yeh, did a little digging today. Rod is there, is in good shape, had just come out of place in all this.

Looks like a Master or slave cylinder issue. Managed to get good pressure at the slave, I loosened off the slave unit, pulled clutch lever a few times and got the piston to come out an stay out with lever held in. Tightens down the slave, and just as it was about to get to full right position, the new clutch lever broke.
Kinda looks like the slave is not holding pressure, or just a case of a cheap lever!
Anyway with these pains, I'm considering rebuild the slave and master to make sure they are spot on.

Gone from pre engine failed clutch working but very, very tight, to engine now running but now non operational clutch!

If I didn't live in central Wisconsin boonies, I'd have a better time getting the parts!

[Aussiepatch]

I'm a little ����☹️right now. This clutch is being a big pain.
Can't figure out what's causing lack of pressure after getting it all set up & don't want to keep throwing money at parts not needed.
Just to be clear, all lines cleaned, master cleaned and given a rebuild kit(old one looks new),checked and cleaned slave bled lines.
I get almost full pressure to start, then it goes to about 3/4 pressure. It does seem to be partially separating the clutch pack, but not enough to get neutral with clutch pulled in.
Neutral light is on when should be, kickstand safety seems good, haven't bypassed clutch lever saftey, don't think it's that, as can't get neutral with clutch in even when engine off.
All seems to point to air in line, but don't know where or how? The only thing I've noticed is when using a manual pressure bleeder gun, I'm still getting a little air/dot4mixture coming out of the bleeder nipple, even with new nipple fully tight.
So do I replace the entire master and put the new kit in it?
Do I rebuild or replace the slave?

They are the only items not replaced yet?

Oh prior to disconnecting clutch line for rebuild work, clutch worked real good and was very firm.
Clutch pack appears to be a near new full Barnett pack.
Help please?

[mick56]

I have had the same problem, with brakes too. I think the air is getting sucked in from around the nipple, not through it. I heard it mentioned, that cable tying the clutch lever back over night, with the slave cylinder cap off, works. It makes sense, as air should rise to the top.

[DragonLady58]

Originally Posted by Aussiepatch

I'm a little ����☹️right now. This clutch is being a big pain.
Can't figure out what's causing lack of pressure after getting it all set up & don't want to keep throwing money at parts not needed.
Just to be clear, all lines cleaned, master cleaned and given a rebuild kit(old one looks new),checked and cleaned slave bled lines.
I get almost full pressure to start, then it goes to about 3/4 pressure. It does seem to be partially separating the clutch pack, but not enough to get neutral with clutch pulled in.
Neutral light is on when should be, kickstand safety seems good, haven't bypassed clutch lever saftey, don't think it's that, as can't get neutral with clutch in even when engine off.
All seems to point to air in line, but don't know where or how? The only thing I've noticed is when using a manual pressure bleeder gun, I'm still getting a little air/dot4mixture coming out of the bleeder nipple, even with new nipple fully tight.
So do I replace the entire master and put the new kit in it?
Do I rebuild or replace the slave?

They are the only items not replaced yet?

Oh prior to disconnecting clutch line for rebuild work, clutch worked real good and was very firm.
Clutch pack appears to be a near new full Barnett pack.
Help please?

Your bike is 17 years old, chances are its not had its fluid changed every 3 to 4 years.
This is a sorta common problem thats been popping up lately....we've had like 3 or 4 members go thru this the past year to year and a half, so don't feel singled out, your not doing anything wrong. Because of age, old fluid, wear and tear, humidity, these clutch systems go down you have to clean and freshen everything up, then its a pain in the ass to get all the air out.
To do it right, since its 17 years old, put a kit in the slave and master cylinder and be done with it. Add your fluid, then bleed the hell outta it. Some of these guys have bleed theirs for days trying to get the air out, and I have too on occassion and I've done it hundreds of times over my 30+ years. I used to use the MityVac bleeder....it works, but its slow, and as Mick and some others will say, the leak around the bleeder will let air in if not careful.
When I had been working about 17 years in the business, I was bleeding the front brakes on a ElectraGlide Classic, after about 3 hours, I was still getting a spongy handle on it, I got really pissed, and started cussing....
The Ole Man, who'd been a Harley MasterMechanic for 50 years (he'd only worked 25 hours a week for that last 10 years), he was in his 70's.
He put grease around the base of the bleeder and around all the banjo bolts. Filled the MS, cracked the bleeders slightly so they'd barely drip, then walked off. He told me to give it a few hours....came back....sure enough, did the bleeding thing, all was right. Its called gravity bleeding.
He told me when he got a hydraulic clutch bike in, he'd show me how to do one of those. He told me those could be a pain in the ass and was he ever right.
The newer low mileage bikes weren't bad, but the older ones that had some miles and age were terrible at times.
After he retired, he had his own repair place for good while, he turned me on to the Phoenix Bleeders, which worked great. Now, we have the self bleeders which make it even better now. If I have the self bleeders, I just do it old school if I can reach the clutch lever....(up on the bike lift....)
Fast forward to today.
You clutch systems been neglected. Rebuild your MS and the slave cyl., clean them out good, get all the gunk and jelly outta them. run some clean fluid thru your line. Pay close attention to you banjo bolt fittings where the lines crimp on, the copper washers and the banjo bolts.
With grease around your bleeder, fill your MS really slow. Once full, put your cover on (just lay it over the open reservoir, just to keep crap and bugs out), let it sit for about 30 minutes....crack your bleeder on the slave cyl., letting it drip slightly slowly. This will moves the air bubbles toward the bleeder.... Give it about a hour or two. I give it 2.
Close it off, up your bleeder, or use a self bleeder valve and run about a MS full of fluid thru, bleeding the system....
Pump up the handle 3 times, (with the reservoir cover on and tight), then holding it, firm, hose attached to bleeder, into a large jar, with brake fluid in it covering the open line.
When your holding he clutch lever in, crack open your bleeder slowly, just enough to let the fluid flow. Before your handle goes all the way down, tighten the bleeder firmly. Slowly let up on handle, them pump it up 3 times, and repeat the process....until you get a good solid clutch handle. Usually takes me refilling the MS once and usually thats all it takes. Sometimes air pockets form and don't want to pop.... thats what gives you a spongy handle, a dragging clutch that doesn't want to fully engage.
Me, myself, about 12 years ago, I started using the phoenix system, never had a bit of problems since (pumps fluid in from the slave cylinder end, filling the system from the bottom up)....but for the single rebuild, the old school method will work just fine, without spending the extra money.
Take it slow, things will work out, just don't let your MS go dry, and pour in your brake fluid really slow to avoid putting more bubbles into the system.
Hope this helps....

Let me add you usually don't need a bleeder system even up on a bike lift, but some bars and risers make it hard to do the clutch up on a lift and reach your slave cylinder. I only use mine if the tall ape hangers are involved....just to let you know. If your bikes on the lift low, you don't need a mityvac or the phoenix.... or on the ground.