Camchain help please

mick56 · 10-04-2018, 08:43 AM

I fitted extenders 25,000m ago,now the chain is rattling.I took the end cap off the tensioner,and poked a nail down inside the hole 1& 1/2in before it reached bottom.So what the hell has happened to the tensioner rod ? Through the plug tunnel, i can feel the chain is tight,yet it has scored the tunnel.I just discovered that i fitted the internal cup & bearing the wrong way around when i did the extenders.So a bit more pressure would have been applied,although nothing excessive.I cant believe that the tensioner rod can be that far in.Mystifies me,any suggestions.

For reference.https://gadgetsfixitpage.com/article...oner-extenders

redjay · 10-04-2018, 11:43 AM

It looks like you are going to have to take off the cam tensioner assembly and have a good look at it. If you cant see the centre rod while its on the bike it would appear it has broken up and gone in the engine but that would likely mean the cam chain is loose, which it is not.

mick56 · 10-04-2018, 12:10 PM

The chains are tight to the feel,yet they have gouged the crap out of the plug tunnels,so they cant be.I am thinking that either the extenders have fallen off,or you are right.In either case,it's amazing it has'nt jammed something up.I did an oil change a few weeks ago,and no sign of any swarf in the filter though.I will take the tensioners off tomorrow,and have a look. I just realised why i fitted the bearing & cup where i did.The bearing is supposed to fit into the inner cup,but will only go in halfway.And it wont fit over the inner sleeve either.So it is impossible to fit the outer cup with it in place .I dont see a reason for the bearing anyway,nothing rotates in there.I previously fitted them behind the cup,just to take up the slack..

mate.

redjay · 10-04-2018, 12:52 PM

Here is a video of the cam chain tensioner. Pay close attention at 1 minute 10 secs as it shows which way the bearing goes in.

DragonLady58 · 10-04-2018, 03:45 PM

Just got your pm bro....pull the tensioner off carefully, clean her up, and take her apart. I get emery paper or scotch brite, clean and deburr shaft. You want everything clean, smooth and free moving. You want to plunger to pop out smoothly and freely when you let off that lockdown screw....
Account for all your parts.....if theres any missing pieces parts, rent or purchase a Borescope from your local rent shop though Harbor freight carrys them cheaply enough....and they do come in handy....for other things home and automotive.....
If there are missing pieces, look inside the hole good, hopefully it hasn't dropped down on the cam chain gear. If it has, you can pull the side cover on whichever side is fouled, also pull the sparkplug tube, better to have too much access.

Once located, its simply a matter of fishing pieces out with a magnet/retrieval tool/inspection light, a mirror/borescope.....If theres any filings/shavings, clean all that out, too.

Afterwards, do a complete oil change to get the ground up stuff, if any, out of engine....
Watch the Above vid....its as complete as you can get.....

mick56 · 10-04-2018, 03:49 PM

I dont have the large outer spring,must have lost that when i fitted the extenders.But i have now got the rest of it to fit correctly,after i took the 8mm bolt right out. I am yet to look at the front one,

but the bastard is still rattling.

mick56 · 10-04-2018, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonLady58

Just got your pm bro....pull the tensioner off carefully, clean her up, and take her apart. I get emery paper or scotch brite, clean and deburr shaft. You want everything clean, smooth and free moving. Account for all your parts.....if theres any missing, rent or purchase from your local rent shop though Harbor freight carrys them cheaply enough....and they do come in handy....for other things home and automotive.....

Thanks for that mate.I am just ordering the outer springs.See my reply to the ginger bloke below.

mick56 · 10-04-2018, 08:10 PM

Put a hold on that.Kawasaki dont show any such large spring.What is that all about ?

Can someone point me at what i am missing please.http://www.kawasakioriginalparts.com...try=GB:cheers:

mick56 · 10-06-2018, 01:18 PM

I just watched that video again,and am confused.The bearing goes in after the large spring,then the 8mm bolt is tightened.What is the point of having a bearing that cant rotate.Surely the inner cap should go in over the bearing,then the bolt should be tightened onto that.And what is the point of the large spring anyway.It is up against 2 solid surfaces,neither of which can move.

dsrtrat · 10-06-2018, 01:52 PM

I don't truly understand the bearing and spring myself but can tell u that the bearing does move in there. 1. why would kawi use this bearing if it didn't but I have evidence. On an older bike I removed the cap to check the depth of the extender. When installing it, the spring somehow got squeezed between the bearing and the extender. It made a small burr on the bearing ring. Few days later when I went to put the extensions on, the extender tube was full of marks that went up and down and across it from the burr. So obviously it moves in there.

mick56 · 10-06-2018, 02:06 PM

I hear you mate.So,the bearing must go past the bolt,which then sits behind it as a retainer.That being the case,the bolt would prevent the cup from going past also.Why would the cap be recessed to accept the bearing,if the bolt is going to prevent it from doing so.Incidentally,the bearing will only fit half way into the cup anyway,as it is tapered.Why would they do that too.And i say again,what is the point of the outer spring ?The whole thing looks like a bollocks to me.I have read on here,and other places,about people preferring a manual adjuster,
.And,like many others, have thought,why would you want to step back in time.I can see why now.

rolfe · 10-07-2018, 11:46 AM

Cam Chain Extenders

Pictures

http://www.tearitupfixitrepeat.blogs...-camchain.html

mick56 · 10-07-2018, 02:15 PM

Thanks for that mate.Still mystified as to what the larger spring does,and why the cup is shaped like it is.Neither of them make any sense to me.
Also,there is a washer that goes in after the bearing,and before the cup.I assume that is to save the face of the bearing,if it should ever rotate.I dont see that in your description.

johnb · 10-07-2018, 03:47 PM

Redjay/Rolfe,
Thank you for the excellent links which are great supplements to Vulcan Gadgets instructions. They really help in showing how to do this repair.
Thanks again!!!

mick56 · 10-07-2018, 04:12 PM

Perhaps you can answer my questions then mate.

10-04-2018, 08:43 AM	#1
mick56 Sr. Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: The Newforest, England Posts: 4,664	Camchain help please I fitted extenders 25,000m ago,now the chain is rattling.I took the end cap off the tensioner,and poked a nail down inside the hole 1& 1/2in before it reached bottom.So what the hell has happened to the tensioner rod ? Through the plug tunnel, i can feel the chain is tight,yet it has scored the tunnel.I just discovered that i fitted the internal cup & bearing the wrong way around when i did the extenders.So a bit more pressure would have been applied,although nothing excessive.I cant believe that the tensioner rod can be that far in.Mystifies me,any suggestions. For reference.https://gadgetsfixitpage.com/article...oner-extenders __________________ when this you see, remember me, and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

10-04-2018, 03:45 PM	#5
DragonLady58 Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Somewhere South of Alaska.... Posts: 2,351	Just got your pm bro....pull the tensioner off carefully, clean her up, and take her apart. I get emery paper or scotch brite, clean and deburr shaft. You want everything clean, smooth and free moving. You want to plunger to pop out smoothly and freely when you let off that lockdown screw.... Account for all your parts.....if theres any missing pieces parts, rent or purchase a Borescope from your local rent shop though Harbor freight carrys them cheaply enough....and they do come in handy....for other things home and automotive..... If there are missing pieces, look inside the hole good, hopefully it hasn't dropped down on the cam chain gear. If it has, you can pull the side cover on whichever side is fouled, also pull the sparkplug tube, better to have too much access. Once located, its simply a matter of fishing pieces out with a magnet/retrieval tool/inspection light, a mirror/borescope.....If theres any filings/shavings, clean all that out, too. Afterwards, do a complete oil change to get the ground up stuff, if any, out of engine.... Watch the Above vid....its as complete as you can get..... __________________ --------------------- Don't start no schit, there won't be no schit.... My Sarcasm is directly proportional to the amount of Stupidity involved --------------------- VBA#03239 VROC#37400 VRA --------------------- 2014 Vaquero 2001 Nomad FI 2003 Street Glide (sold) 1500 Meanie, fresh rebuild (sold) 90s BUBF Bobber (sold) 2001 UltraCycle FatPounder (Sold) 1975 HD ElectraGlide (Sold) 1982 Kawasaki Z1 Chopper (Sold) Suck It Up & Ride! Login or Register to Remove Ads Last edited by DragonLady58; 10-04-2018 at 04:04 PM.
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10-04-2018, 03:49 PM	#6
mick56 Sr. Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: The Newforest, England Posts: 4,664	I dont have the large outer spring,must have lost that when i fitted the extenders.But i have now got the rest of it to fit correctly,after i took the 8mm bolt right out. I am yet to look at the front one, but the bastard is still rattling. __________________ when this you see, remember me, and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find.
	0

10-04-2018, 08:10 PM	#8
mick56 Sr. Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: The Newforest, England Posts: 4,664	Put a hold on that.Kawasaki dont show any such large spring.What is that all about ? Can someone point me at what i am missing please.http://www.kawasakioriginalparts.com...try=GB:cheers: __________________ when this you see, remember me, and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find.
	0

10-06-2018, 01:18 PM	#9
mick56 Sr. Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: The Newforest, England Posts: 4,664	I just watched that video again,and am confused.The bearing goes in after the large spring,then the 8mm bolt is tightened.What is the point of having a bearing that cant rotate.Surely the inner cap should go in over the bearing,then the bolt should be tightened onto that.And what is the point of the large spring anyway.It is up against 2 solid surfaces,neither of which can move. __________________ when this you see, remember me, and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find.
	0

10-04-2018, 11:43 AM	#2
redjay Top Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ontario Posts: 6,935	It looks like you are going to have to take off the cam tensioner assembly and have a good look at it. If you cant see the centre rod while its on the bike it would appear it has broken up and gone in the engine but that would likely mean the cam chain is loose, which it is not.
	0

10-04-2018, 12:52 PM	#4
redjay Top Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ontario Posts: 6,935	Here is a video of the cam chain tensioner. Pay close attention at 1 minute 10 secs as it shows which way the bearing goes in.
	0

10-06-2018, 01:52 PM	#10
dsrtrat Member Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 221	I don't truly understand the bearing and spring myself but can tell u that the bearing does move in there. 1. why would kawi use this bearing if it didn't but I have evidence. On an older bike I removed the cap to check the depth of the extender. When installing it, the spring somehow got squeezed between the bearing and the extender. It made a small burr on the bearing ring. Few days later when I went to put the extensions on, the extender tube was full of marks that went up and down and across it from the burr. So obviously it moves in there.
	0

10-06-2018, 02:06 PM	#11
mick56 Sr. Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: The Newforest, England Posts: 4,664	I hear you mate.So,the bearing must go past the bolt,which then sits behind it as a retainer.That being the case,the bolt would prevent the cup from going past also.Why would the cap be recessed to accept the bearing,if the bolt is going to prevent it from doing so.Incidentally,the bearing will only fit half way into the cup anyway,as it is tapered.Why would they do that too.And i say again,what is the point of the outer spring ?The whole thing looks like a bollocks to me.I have read on here,and other places,about people preferring a manual adjuster, .And,like many others, have thought,why would you want to step back in time.I can see why now. __________________ when this you see, remember me, and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find. Last edited by mick56; 10-06-2018 at 02:18 PM.
	0

10-07-2018, 11:46 AM	#12
rolfe Advanced Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Lake Travis, Texas Posts: 518	Cam Chain Extenders Pictures http://www.tearitupfixitrepeat.blogs...-camchain.html Last edited by rolfe; 10-07-2018 at 11:53 AM.
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10-07-2018, 02:15 PM	#13
mick56 Sr. Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: The Newforest, England Posts: 4,664	Thanks for that mate.Still mystified as to what the larger spring does,and why the cup is shaped like it is.Neither of them make any sense to me. Also,there is a washer that goes in after the bearing,and before the cup.I assume that is to save the face of the bearing,if it should ever rotate.I dont see that in your description. __________________ when this you see, remember me, and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find. Last edited by mick56; 10-07-2018 at 02:22 PM.
	0

10-07-2018, 03:47 PM	#14
johnb Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Yonkers, NY Posts: 271	Thank you Rejay Rolfe Redjay/Rolfe, Thank you for the excellent links which are great supplements to Vulcan Gadgets instructions. They really help in showing how to do this repair. Thanks again!!!
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10-07-2018, 04:12 PM	#15
mick56 Sr. Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: The Newforest, England Posts: 4,664	Perhaps you can answer my questions then mate. __________________ when this you see, remember me, and bear me in your mind, let all the world say what they may, speak of me as you find.
	0