OK Guys....Here is my short list

[blowndodge]

I for one never thought the Voyager as a "crappy" bike. I was pointing out you get what you pay for. The "Sum of the Parts" sold me. If you don't know why Vics cost a lot more then no amount of tech comparison part by part will change anyone's mind. Lots of people have cruised all over the U.S. with just about any bike.

[manban9888]

Originally Posted by fammdw

I rode one (Victory Cross Country) and then went down the road and bought a Voyager.

I wasn't impressed with the XC. I thought the riding position was great, but the wind management was the worst I have ever seen and I mean worst than a naked bike.

The gravel and general crud from the road kicked up by cars in front of me peppered me like a shotgun blast. The transmission was as clunky if not clunkier than a Harley. The location of the rear brake peddle was ridiculous to the point that the first couple of times I went to stop I couldn't find the damn thing with my foot. The wind over the shorty windshield had my head looping around from the turbulence. I couldn't hear the stereo over 50 mph.

Even with all these issues I kept telling myself that I could fix it because I liked the looks of the bike. Then I got back from the test drive and spoke to the lunatic salesman.

This dealership in question advertises on TV and on the radio that they will not be undersold. They will match any price. I had located several bikes of the same make and model (2012 Red & Silver XC) just under $16,000.

At first the salesman told me that he couldn't match the lowest advertised price of $15,995. He showed me on his invoice sheet that the price was invoice minus the current rebate money they had going on the 2012's at the time. He eventually backed off that after talking to his manager and said they could do the price, but couldn't take my trade in. They had earlier quoted me at $5500 on trade for my 2006 Nomad.

When I asked why they couldn't take the trade-in, he said that he could, but if they took my trade, I would have to pay the full $21,000 retail price for the XC - $19,500 after the $1500 rebate. That was also before the filing fees and whatever else they add in.

I asked him if he understood that what he was suggesting was that I give him my Nomad for the equivalent of $2000 on the trade? He seemed oblivious to this and thought that his math made perfect sense. I thanked him and then went 20 miles down the road and bought a 2012 Voyager for $15,700 out the door and got $5800 on the trade-in for the Nomad. That's an out of pocket cost of $9900.

I know that several of my concerns about the XC would be addressed on the XCT, but they are at least $3000 more than the XC. If I were to go with my Victory salesman's math skills that would run me close to $11,000 more out the door than I paid for my Voyager. It just ain't that much better.

I did 3000 miles out to and around Tennessee this past fall on the VV and I'm getting ready to take off with a buddy in two weeks to do a ten day, 3500 mile trip through southern New Mexico / Arizona, up to the Grand Canyon, to Durango for a run up the million dollar highway and over to Taos, NM before returning home.

I must say that I've been pretty damn happy with my "crappy" Voyager. I rode her a couple hundred miles today and by God, I think I'm gonna ride the stinker again tomorrow!

I enjoy my Vulcans too and it's become a strange dynamic here lately w a negative trend towards Vulcan baggers at the Vulcan Bagger Association. I hope Shoeney buys the perfect bike for him and that his knee gets better

[manban9888]

Originally Posted by fammdw

I rode one (Victory Cross Country) and then went down the road and bought a Voyager.

I wasn't impressed with the XC. I thought the riding position was great, but the wind management was the worst I have ever seen and I mean worst than a naked bike.

The gravel and general crud from the road kicked up by cars in front of me peppered me like a shotgun blast. The transmission was as clunky if not clunkier than a Harley. The location of the rear brake peddle was ridiculous to the point that the first couple of times I went to stop I couldn't find the damn thing with my foot. The wind over the shorty windshield had my head looping around from the turbulence. I couldn't hear the stereo over 50 mph.

Even with all these issues I kept telling myself that I could fix it because I liked the looks of the bike. Then I got back from the test drive and spoke to the lunatic salesman.

This dealership in question advertises on TV and on the radio that they will not be undersold. They will match any price. I had located several bikes of the same make and model (2012 Red & Silver XC) just under $16,000.

At first the salesman told me that he couldn't match the lowest advertised price of $15,995. He showed me on his invoice sheet that the price was invoice minus the current rebate money they had going on the 2012's at the time. He eventually backed off that after talking to his manager and said they could do the price, but couldn't take my trade in. They had earlier quoted me at $5500 on trade for my 2006 Nomad.

When I asked why they couldn't take the trade-in, he said that he could, but if they took my trade, I would have to pay the full $21,000 retail price for the XC - $19,500 after the $1500 rebate. That was also before the filing fees and whatever else they add in.

I asked him if he understood that what he was suggesting was that I give him my Nomad for the equivalent of $2000 on the trade? He seemed oblivious to this and thought that his math made perfect sense. I thanked him and then went 20 miles down the road and bought a 2012 Voyager for $15,700 out the door and got $5800 on the trade-in for the Nomad. That's an out of pocket cost of $9900.

I know that several of my concerns about the XC would be addressed on the XCT, but they are at least $3000 more than the XC. If I were to go with my Victory salesman's math skills that would run me close to $11,000 more out the door than I paid for my Voyager. It just ain't that much better.

I did 3000 miles out to and around Tennessee this past fall on the VV and I'm getting ready to take off with a buddy in two weeks to do a ten day, 3500 mile trip through southern New Mexico / Arizona, up to the Grand Canyon, to Durango for a run up the million dollar highway and over to Taos, NM before returning home.

I must say that I've been pretty damn happy with my "crappy" Voyager. I rode her a couple hundred miles today and by God, I think I'm gonna ride the stinker again tomorrow!

Originally Posted by blowndodge

I for one never thought the Voyager as a "crappy" bike. I was pointing out you get what you pay for. The "Sum of the Parts" sold me. If you don't know why Vics cost a lot more then no amount of tech comparison part by part will change anyone's mind. Lots of people have cruised all over the U.S. with just about any bike.

BD There's no doubt that the XCT is a great bike and probably worth every penny. I'm sure that your passion for your Victory has more to it than any tech comparison. Believe it or not some of us feel the same way about our Vulcans and simply prefer them over other bikes.

[blowndodge]

and I have no issue with that whatsoever. It's more of an answer to the question of why I and others spend that kind of bank on a motorcycle. You get what you pay for. At 55 I'm at a point that entry level touring bikes are in my past. I and other's will spend the coin.

[schoeney]

Before we go any further lets be perfectly clear. Vulcans are great bikes! Vulcans are a great value. No matter what comparison people make we are usually comparing a more expensive bike to a Vulcan. Not really apples to apples and not fair to Vulcans.

Every owners forum I have visited is littered with the host brand being compared to a different brand. Just a natural thing to discuss.

The other thing I notice is when comparing bikes most compare MSRP to MSRP, again not apples to apples as in many cases one brand may discount off MSRP regularly while the other doesn't.

As an example, what we should really be saying is would you rather have a XCT or a Voyager and $6000 cash (or whatever the accurate price difference is).

When I bought my used Nomad I chose the Nomad over a comparable used Honda VTX but I also saved $2000. Was the VTX more powerful.....yep. But I was very happy with my choice and felt I got great value and enjoyment for the 5 years I owned my Nomad. Does my choice mean the VTX is a bad bike....absolutely not. Did it mean the Nomad was better, nope. I simply chose what I thought to be the better value for me.

The good thing about the Vulcans is they have a price advantage over just about every similar (not to be confused with comparable) competitors. It seems to be MaKaws trend the last several years and obviously there are reasons why the market has determined that Vulcans should cost less.

This website has been great. It does help breed a sense of brand loyalty. I know if all else was equal I would buy a Kawasaki first.

[manban9888]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

and I have no issue with that whatsoever. It's more of an answer to the question of why I and others spend that kind of bank on a motorcycle. You get what you pay for. At 55 I'm at a point that entry level touring bikes are in my past. I and other's will spend the coin.

I hear you and we can agree that we have different tastes in motorcycles. It has nothing to do w "coin". Money is irrelevant to me w this issue. Maybe age is a factor and can understand the desire for more comforts or more room but none of that is really the point. I just don't see how REPEATED statements by you or anybody else here like ENTRY LEVEL or YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR or constantly talking of other bikes being much better than Vulcan baggers can be helpful to the VBA. The dynamic here is different from other forums and better in my opinion in that major contributors ride other bikes now but have made lifetime friendships and like it here so much that you guys rightfully stay. But for the VBA to be that for others and new members it needs to be a positive place. I just want you and others to consider that it's not just your friends and old hands here that are reading and that some new guys that are reading and deciding whether they should take a chance and drive 1200 miles to hang out w people they've never met. I took that chance and am glad I did but I'm not sure I would have made the same choice if I just found this forum recently. I'm not meaning any insult. I honestly hope guys take this in the positive way I mean it and just think about it.

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by ponch

As far as the Victory goes, I don't qualify for any discount and I haven't seen leftovers.

Everyone qualifies for some of the discounts (buying within 30 days after a demo ride, any discounts on holdovers, etc) and there are holdovers everywhere, just maybe not at your dealer. All the dealer needs to do is call around to other dealers (or you could). My bike started out at a dealer in PA and was trucked over to my local dealer (in IN). The best time to buy a Vic is just after the new model year comes out (I bought mine in Sept). That's when Vic announces the new holdover deals.

[fammdw]

Originally Posted by manban9888

I hear you and we can agree that we have different tastes in motorcycles. It has nothing to do w "coin". Money is irrelevant to me w this issue. Maybe age is a factor and can understand the desire for more comforts or more room but none of that is really the point. I just don't see how REPEATED statements by you or anybody else here like ENTRY LEVEL or YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR or constantly talking of other bikes being much better than Vulcan baggers can be helpful to the VBA. The dynamic here is different from other forums and better in my opinion in that major contributors ride other bikes now but have made lifetime friendships and like it here so much that you guys rightfully stay. But for the VBA to be that for others and new members it needs to be a positive place. I just want you and others to consider that it's not just your friends and old hands here that are reading and that some new guys that are reading and deciding whether they should take a chance and drive 1200 miles to hang out w people they've never met. I took that chance and am glad I did but I'm not sure I would have made the same choice if I just found this forum recently. I'm not meaning any insult. I honestly hope guys take this in the positive way I mean it and just think about it.

manban you are being too kind here. I personally have heard this rhetoric until I am completely sick of it. In 2009 I bought a FJR1300 after many years of riding cruisers. I thought it was the next evolution of riding for me. Well I couldn't get used to it and ended up selling it a year and a half later. I would not even consider going to that forum and talk about how much better my VV is than their FJR.

If that type of behavior occurred over on that forum, the person doing it would be banned from the FJR1300 forum. There are a handful of "enthusiast" members on this forum that are responsible for 90% of the brand bashing that goes on here. Trip pointed it out and challenged the behavior right before he stepped down. Maybe it's time for our new leader to step in and deal with it once and for all.

The comments I've seen are either out of ignorance or arrogance. With all the talk of price and the ability to afford it, I would lean towards the arrogance angle. I get it... You moved on from a Kawasaki product and really love your new bike. Now move on from this forum. Go to the Victory, Harley and BMW forum and sing the praises until your fingers seize up. Then go by some voice recognition software and rant some more.

If I choose to buy a Camry at half the price of a Lexus GS 350 because I don't give a crap about the leather seats, navigation and other luxury add-ons, I shouldn't have to constantly listen to shit from a Lexus owner about how much better his car is. I would certainly hope you like it. You paid twice as much for it! This is the VULCAN BAGGER ASSOCIATION.

No... The strange dynamic in this forum is that the Vulcan owners of this thread sit back and continue to eat this bowl of crap cereal without much more than a whimper. You are not an "enthusiast" if you take pleasure in bashing the current Kawasaki product(s).

I apologize for hi-jacking the thread of the gentleman shopping for a new bike. I hope you do find the bike that works best for you. It's just when I came across the thread I saw more of the same from the same.

Now I will sit back and wait for the "enthusiast" flame that's heading my way. I'll also get an inbox full of PMs from Vulcan owners that support my comments in private, but never speak out to challenge these bullies for talking shit about their motorcycle.

manban9888 makes a great point. I seriously considered heading up to Estes Park for the rally, but decided against it because I don't trust myself with a belly full of beer around people that speak negatively about my choice of motorcycle. No doubt most of the "enthusiasts" will be there to show off the merits of their new and improved ride. I get enough of that in this forum. I certainly don't want to road trip in to experience it in person.

[Chili]

Originally Posted by fammdw

manban you are being too kind here. I personally have heard this rhetoric until I am completely sick of it. In 2009 I bought a FJR1300 after many years of riding cruisers. I thought it was the next evolution of riding for me. Well I couldn't get used to it and ended up selling it a year and a half later. I would not even consider going to that forum and talk about how much better my VV is than their FJR.

If that type of behavior occurred over on that forum, the person doing it would be banned from the FJR1300 forum. There are a handful of "enthusiast" members on this forum that are responsible for 90% of the brand bashing that goes on here. Trip pointed it out and challenged the behavior right before he stepped down. Maybe it's time for our new leader to step in and deal with it once and for all.

The comments I've seen are either out of ignorance or arrogance. With all the talk of price and the ability to afford it, I would lean towards the arrogance angle. I get it... You moved on from a Kawasaki product and really love your new bike. Now move on from this forum. Go to the Victory, Harley and BMW forum and sing the praises until your fingers seize up. Then go by some voice recognition software and rant some more.

If I choose to buy a Camry at half the price of a Lexus GS 350 because I don't give a crap about the leather seats, navigation and other luxury add-ons, I shouldn't have to constantly listen to shit from a Lexus owner about how much better his car is. I would certainly hope you like it. You paid twice as much for it! This is the VULCAN BAGGER ASSOCIATION.

No... The strange dynamic in this forum is that the Vulcan owners of this thread sit back and continue to eat this bowl of crap cereal without much more than a whimper. You are not an "enthusiast" if you take pleasure in bashing the current Kawasaki product(s).

I apologize for hi-jacking the thread of the gentleman shopping for a new bike. I hope you do find the bike that works best for you. It's just when I came across the thread I saw more of the same from the same.

Now I will sit back and wait for the "enthusiast" flame that's heading my way. I'll also get an inbox full of PMs from Vulcan owners that support my comments in private, but never speak out to challenge these bullies for talking shit about their motorcycle.

manban9888 makes a great point. I seriously considered heading up to Estes Park for the rally, but decided against it because I don't trust myself with a belly full of beer around people that speak negatively about my choice of motorcycle. No doubt most of the "enthusiasts" will be there to show off the merits of their new and improved ride. I get enough of that in this forum. I certainly don't want to road trip in to experience it in person.

[Netnorske]

I for one am kind of sorry you see it that way. I have never taken the comments as "Kawasaki bashing", or ever heard any of these guys, myself included, expressing anthing but great love and appreciation for the Vulcans they have previously owned. I personally tried to stay with the brand (at no small expense), and I never ever said the Voyager was a PIA or anything close to it. It is a fine motorcycle with lots of power and such. I only ever expressed my personal dislike for how it fit me personally.

Like most every member here who has moved on to another brand, I first and foremost wish I could have purchased a Vulcan that fit ALL of my needs....not just one or two. That fact that this information gets shared and pointed out is in the hopes that Kawasaki might take such information to improve upon their product. If all you ever do is say how great it is, then how will they ever know that their cramped seating position is an issue for many potential riders, or that their small trunk does not fill the bill?

If bought a bike that fit as many needs as possible, price being the least of my considerations. If I could have purchased a Vulcan that did so, I would have. You are right, this is the VBA, but as Greg pointed out, talking about other bikes is par for the course on any forum and I have been on many these days. The fact that many of us continue to hang out here is one, because we can still add somthing to the conversation and two, we have indeed made many friends here over a lot of years.

You sound a little like a first year umpire crying because the crowd is getting all over you. Don't take it so personal, it is all just biker talk. I don't think anyone who has moved to another brand thinks anything less of Vulcans, I know I don't. Now....can I get another cocktail please...??

[manban9888]

Originally Posted by Chili

He can speak his mind here like everybody else. Nobody cares what anybody else rides so what is the point of CONSTANTLY talking about how great some other bike is on a Vulcan Bagger forum? Maybe it's them that need to lighten up on it already

[ponch]

And I thought we were supposed to be happy here, cheering Schoney on to get his new ride. Instead of partisanship, let's keep it focused and at least live vicariously through Schoney. Not all of us can get a new to them bike.

[Monkeyman]

I don't think I ever bashed Kawasaki. It didn't happen to be the bike "for me". It's a good bike for what it is but it's NOT a fully loaded touring bike which is what I wanted. Once schoeney had his short list, I tried to convince him to buy what I feel is the best bike out there (for now, at least). Any other Victory comments I make are purely in jest. Besides, this is the Off Topic section. We could start 50 topics a day on other brands of bikes. If Jared wants me to leave because I talk about another brand, all he has to do is say so.

[Chili]

Originally Posted by manban9888

He can speak his mind here like everybody else. Nobody cares what anybody else rides so what is the point of CONSTANTLY talking about how great some other bike is on a Vulcan Bagger forum? Maybe it's them that need to lighten up on it already

He's welcome to speak his mind all he likes, I'm just pointing out that in my opinion he's wound pretty tight about this stuff. I'd suggest based on his comments he certainly cares what others ride as it's become a bone of contention for him.

Most of the banter from some of the guys who recently went to other bikes is good natured crap throwing between people that have actually met face to face and developed friendships and enjoy throwing a few barbs back and forth. To suggest they need to move on from this forum after all they've provided in both content and leadership is childish.

I love my new bike, and I was thrilled with my Nomad as well, there are many things I prefer on the Victory but there is also other things I wish I could bring over from the Nomad. Like Kris, if Kawasaki offered a bike that suited my needs I'd still be on one as I had an awesome dealer and prior to my street riding had raced MX on Kawi's for this dealer so it hurt to take my money elsewhere.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Once schoeney had his short list, I tried to convince him to buy what I feel is the best bike out there..........

I never saw your post advising him to buy an Ultra Classic!