Obamacare Passes

[Sin City Stan]

Originally Posted by Carpathia

If Americans truly have that drive, why not use it to build the best universal system in the world? There are many that have come before you. Learn from them and improve upon them all.

Consider this, we're talking about 10, 20 or 30 million people, it depends on who's spinning the yarn. Because of these people we are going to turn the healthcare system upside down for the other 270, 280 or 290 million people who already have healthcare. I have to think it would be more economical to provide healthcare free of charge to these people at a far lower cost than what is currently proposed. Which leads me to think that this is just another grand Government plan to create more Government jobs and to make more people dependant on the Government. We have seen this before but this time it's on a grand scale.

As I said before, Nov. 6 is the last chance to change this. It will take at a minimum 50 Senators, a Romney VP and 218 Congressmen. Vote wisely.

[NRiderUSA]

These points always make the assumtion that "All" people are working their asses off and cant afford health care.
What about the dead beats who just want to sponge off other peoples efforts?
What about the lazy asshole who spent his years in the provided free schooling staying stoned and coasting through with goals of nothing other than partying this weekend?
What about the women who think their soul purpose in life is to get laid and produce kids cause they get more benefits with each new offspring they produce?

I listened to the occupiers BS and it pisses me off, I worked nights weekends went to school and worked as a janitor to get the education and level of life I wanted.... and some winnie is whining about how unfair it is that a cook doesnt make what a brain surgeon makes...... and whats even worse is their is a political party that represents that.

When the "free" part comes in just about all people would give to someone who by circumstances or just plain bad luck needed help. But they are creating an entire class of mentality of people that are growing up and being taught not to strive for anything cause theres always someone out the to spounge off of.

It is about the old "Give a man a fish and he eats today, teach him to fish and he will eat the rest of his life"...... we have DE-volved into the give everyone a fish and they will stand in line for more....Gotcha.

Big Government does not work.....Period.
But it does insure power.

And it keeps coming down to Remember in November!!!! Time to flush the turds out of the toilet.

[Kedosto]

Wow. The amount of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) here is stunning. This whole thread is FAIL.

[NRiderUSA]

Sure seems to have come to that under the BomPeReid agenda hasnt it.
Wonder why that is.

[Carpathia]

I was out for a ride and, as I'm sure you find as well, things seem to sort themselves out when you do that. I figured out what is really irritating me about this whole topic.

What you people have here is an opportunity. Americans have the drive, the money, the technology, the motive, and the people to make the best medical system in the world. Hands down. A system where everyone can be treated fairly and with compassion. It has the potential to be the first great social achievement of the 21st century, and can set the stage for world health care throughout the upcoming century. It's something that your citizens can look at and be proud of - have a renewed sense of pride in yourselves. It's something that the rest of the world can look at and be jealous of, and model ourselves after, and something to strive towards.

That opportunity is being wasted.

The naysayers have reasons. Some may be valid; I have no idea. But mostly I hear them as excuses about selfishness: If you believe that a few of your dollars is more valuable than someone else's life, or that somehow your life has more intrinsic value than your neighbour because you make more money than him (or he's lazy), or the government is wasting your money... You see things from a very negative perspective. You assume that everyone else is worthless, doing things wrong, and ripping you off right from the start.

When I look at it, I see the positive. I see the system really about compassion and support: You pay into a system to support your friends, neighbours, and fellow citizens. In turn, they pay into that system when you need it. Everyone is looking out for everyone else. Everyone has value, regardless of what they do (or don't), it doesn't matter how much they make (or don't). One day, you might be down on your luck and need medical support. Sure there will be abuses and problems, but those will be the very small minority, and it's worth it. The net gain will be massive.

To add insult to injury, you're going to put a knife in the back of the guy who tried. You expected an overnight answer to an incredibly complex subject? Instead, everyone just seems to want to shoot it down before it gets out of the starting gate; you're not anywhere near the finish line.

Based on what I see in this forum, it appears like Americans are 90% against Obamacare, but I suspect the issue is actually more evenly balanced. (Though I really don't know.) You guys are very vocal in your stance against, and I understand your passion on the issue. But I hope there are Americans here who feel like I do lurking. I find it somewhat funny (and somewhat strange) that a Canadian is the one who has to stand up to defend a system he knows nothing about. Please understand that I'm not necessarily defending the details of the Obamacare system so much as I'm defending the idea of universal health care.

If you got this far, thanks for taking the time to understand where I'm coming from. It's lengthy, I agree.

[Kawhead]

Originally Posted by Kedosto

Wow. The amount of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) here is stunning. This whole thread is FAIL.

No, the discourse in this thread is the result of one Freedom loving side being steeped in writings such as this;

The idea that the reach of the federal government would be restricted to a few enumerated powers is articulated by Madison in Federalist No. 45:

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. ”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other, side by contrast, desires a humongous centralized government, and adores the musing of anther historical figure who wrote;

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need

[Netnorske]

Originally Posted by Carpathia

I was out for a ride and, as I'm sure you find as well, things seem to sort themselves out when you do that. I figured out what is really irritating me about this whole topic.

What you people have here is an opportunity. Americans have the drive, the money, the technology, the motive, and the people to make the best medical system in the world. Hands down. A system where everyone can be treated fairly and with compassion. It has the potential to be the first great social achievement of the 21st century, and can set the stage for world health care throughout the upcoming century. It's something that your citizens can look at and be proud of - have a renewed sense of pride in yourselves. It's something that the rest of the world can look at and be jealous of, and model ourselves after, and something to strive towards.

Agreed....but only as long as the government stays OUT of it. Competition drives costs down and spurs initiative and creativity. Tort reform, insurance portability and the like would bring costs down even more. What don't you get here......???

[Netnorske]

BTW....I was dying listening to Jay Carney trying to sell the fact that the TAX on the uninsured is still not a TAX, but a PENALTY....OMG....how stupid do they they think people are?

Chief Justice Roberts said in his opinion -
"It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."

Translation by your humble NW Region Leader-
"Are you people f*cking stupid...?? Vote these leftist commies out of office"

[canedriver]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

Here's some info on your boy MacMillan whom's opinion you so cherish:

"New questions emerged about the abrupt resignation of Stryker Corp.'s chief executive, Stephen P. MacMillan, and the company's discussion with analysts that he had a romantic relationship with an ex-employee.

The 48-year-old executive resigned Feb. 8 after apparently losing the confidence of some key board members at the medical-device maker, according to a person familiar with the matter.

Those board members became bothered after learning of Mr. MacMillan's purported affair." WSJ

Sounds like a Democrat to me!

How in the hell does that even pertain to the subject? I merely took what someone said and got a quote from the CEO from that company. What's the matter you didnt like the quote?

[canedriver]

Carpathia it isn't that the people here and across America are against Obamacare. They like the provisions. They just do not like the mandate from THIS president. If Romney farted it out of a unicorns rear they would think it smelled like roses. It is THIS president they do not like.

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by canedriver

Carpathia it isn't that the people here and across America are against Obamacare. They like the provisions. They just do not like the mandate from THIS president. If Romney farted it out of a unicorns rear they would think it smelled like roses. It is THIS president they do not like.

Ahhh "NO" Cane... YOU have it wrong again... the only person "farting" around here is you and a couple others.

You see... YOU think YOU know everything... I'll bet you are a "hoot" at all the parties... people having to listen to how "right" you are and how "wrong" everyone else is... must me lonely...


The president promised his signature legislation would bend the cost curve down; however when has a government program ever done such a thing?

It won't happen with ObamaCare, though the president also swore that the legislation would not add to the federal deficit.

In March, the Congressional Budget Office said the law would cost $1.76 trillion from 2013 to 2022, nearly double the $900 billion Obama quoted in September 2009. That's only a partial picture. Beginning in 2014, the next 10 years of ObamaCare — through 2023 — will cost more than $2 trillion.

The medical overhaul is also a choice killer. Many heard Obama promising under his plan, "If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period."
Those aren't the facts.

As reported in April, the CBO estimates as many as 20 million Americans will be forced out of their plans as employers toss workers into government health exchanges to avoid ObamaCare's costs.

A survey by McKinsey and Co. found nearly one-third of employers will likely to drop coverage for their workers once ObamaCare kicks in.

In addition; an analysis by the Medicare actuary found ObamaCare's attacks on Medicare's private insurance options will force nearly 8 million seniors out of the coverage they've chosen.

So what else is wrong with ObamaCare?

• Consumer costs will rise. CBO says premiums will increase over the next decade faster than they did in the past five years.

• The Affordable Care Act is just the beginning. It's the door to a single-payer government system run by a DMV-type bureaucracy.

• The quality of care will suffer. The Democrats' law will chill the incentives to become a doctor, to create innovative drugs and to produce live-saving and life-enhancing medical equipment.

• Don't be surprised when treatment is rationed by government. As it takes over a larger portion of health care — it already controls nearly half — resources won't be able to keep up with demand. Somebody wins, somebody loses based on someone else's whim.

This November, the people of the U.S. have a choice to stop this nonsense and to put those people who support it in there place...

[majeff]

You go GL!

[NRiderUSA]

Originally Posted by canedriver

Carpathia it isn't that the people here and across America are against Obamacare. They like the provisions. They just do not like the mandate from THIS president. If Romney farted it out of a unicorns rear they would think it smelled like roses. It is THIS president they do not like.

They dont like Obama......too funny..... all the efforts to explain the details of why they dont agree with Obama and Obamacare and almost everything else he and his people are trying to force feed Americans....thats the reason you came down to?

I dont know how many times they have tried to get this type of crap thru in our history but their claims of 60 years I think prove you wrong Cane..... its not the person pusing the program.... its the program.

I dont think your able to understand by choice or whatever there is more to it than Obama is the one doing it.....although I agree with you, its going to influence what people think of him along with the other things he has done since getting elected.... whether they love him or hate him his actions make that opinion.

[NRiderUSA]

Originally Posted by Netnorske

BTW....I was dying listening to Jay Carney trying to sell the fact that the TAX on the uninsured is still not a TAX, but a PENALTY....OMG....how stupid do they they think people are?

Chief Justice Roberts said in his opinion -
"It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices."

Translation by your humble NW Region Leader-
"Are you people f*cking stupid...?? Vote these leftist commies out of office"

+1...... wish I would have said that....

[blowndodge]

Originally Posted by canedriver

How in the hell does that even pertain to the subject? I merely took what someone said and got a quote from the CEO from that company. What's the matter you didnt like the quote?

really? really?!! do i need to find every "faux" news derrogatory remark you made when I paraphrase their "opinion"?

All I did was expose your "ethical" "quotable" source. Your hyprocracy knows no boundry