I'm about to get kicked off the board-Saying bye

[pagemastr]

For the record:
I am a child of the era Dan speaks of;
I remember watching the lottery numbers being pulled for the draft, I have retired military members in my family and have lost one family member and a few high school friends to wars including Vietnam and have nothing but respect for the veterans of all wars.

I am proud to be a third generation American, my great grandparents coming from England.

I am also old and mature enough to not be offended being called an old fart and wear it as a sort of badge of honor ???

Reading Dan's post, I do not see where he called anyone an old fart... his reference there to "The generation that wanted social change." Noone was specifically called an old fart that I could see. If all this takes is an inference to being called a name, then me being called Jacko in regards to one of my earliest posts by someone who disagreed... no offense taken as mostly I try to consider the source.

I don't see where he slandered any vets from his posting as Dan didn't speak to any veteran group in his old farts reference. The comment regarding old farts is a general statement, much more general than the specific derogatory comments made to our leadership in Washington. I totally don't agree with what all happens there, and wonder where some of these these short term memories went to when they forget a recent administration made it acceptable for an American citizen to be held, with no access to representation, for an indefinite period of time. I don't see this as something the veterans of any war fought for!

I do read a lot of the posts here and have commented on a few of them when I see humor in the close minded right wing hypocrisy spewing from most of them which seems to have the approval of the moderators, but when someone speaks their mind disagreeing, and is disrespected all seems fine, depending on who is offended it seems.

I like Dan's posts, he makes some valid posts not only about the topic but about this board in general:
"It is interesting that people are so open to being offensive in this forum, just because most people here have the same mind set. Just because you get a lot of people nodding their heads, doesn't mean that it isn't offensive. But if anyone comes through and isn't nodding their heads, then its offensive."

Within the Ticket thread, comments such as "You've got to remember than Dan talks to crazy people all day for a living. Some of it may have rubbed off on him, or another post questioning his citizenship. these postings are tolerated while Dan's feet are being held to the fire for an Old Farts reference? I don't get it.

I don't personally see why all the drama to be honest. I don't always agree with him but his posts are often colorful, entertaining, and frequently informative. Rather than kicking Dan from the board, perhaps this is a good time to restrict political posts as they seem to be the ones creating all the broo haa haa and have nothing what so ever to do with riding, though I do admit I will miss my morning coffee and daily dose of hypocrisy. This is in the hope for Dan to stay and hope we can all get past this!

"Don't blame me... I voted for Hillary"

[cdneh]

The post by Dan clearly addresses members of this board whom he refers to as old timers and softies.
He does this when he states "All you old-timers... You all became softies... what happened to you?" It is a sham to hide behind a claim that he did not mention names. If his intent was to not address members of this forum he needed only to remove the word 'you' to ask what happened to the old-timers? As it is written it reads like an attack on a group of people in the forum. It is simple and easy to correct his intent, then, it becomes not an issue of name calling, but of generalization and is less offensive. Also it matters not how much you have suggested for the forum, rather how you treat the people, recognizing that direct comments can be offensive.

[voyager]

Debate is good, we need it otherwise we become brainless automatons following the lead sheep. Speaking of being offensive, I've been personally called on the carpet by some of you for expressing my Canadian opinion. All I got back was that "we were wimps and that if it wasn't for the Americans we would have been taken over long ago. In fact, the U.S. may just do it some day if they need our water or oil". So, like most good Canadians I turned the other cheek and simply considered the source. As most of you should do who were offended by Dan's comments. It does appear somewhat bias when the comments hit close to home to some here.....

voyager

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Being 63 and before lottery numbers I was about to be drafted in 1967. I found this out from the lady that worked at the local draft board. Back then there were no lottery numbers. If you weren't in college and you were in good health you got drafted. So he was referring to me and others of my generation stating that we rolled over. Well I damn sure didn't roll over, never have and never will. I'm not rolling over now. It sounded as if he were blaming everything on us what has happened to the country. The thread started off about illegal immigration and then he has to bring up the part about the old farts which I took to mean my generation and the ones before me. I did take offense to that. As I stated I have not and never will roll over. If there were something I could do to right the country I would do it. After doing 20 plus years in the military I would go back again and fight if I had to if it would do any good. Dan could have worded things differently and as I stated OldBikers didn't say anything about the older generation. It was Dan and his infinite wisdom that saw fit to throw that in. I don't mind at all being called an old fart. Hell I am an old fart and damn proud of it. It means I won't die young. I do resent saying we rolled over. Just me and my thoughts.

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Voyager I have never said anything about Canadians but I will now. I think you guys are alright in my book. Heck I even dated a girl from Toronto. Man was she a beauty. Sorry if others have said anything against you are Canada. Canada is a beautiful country and if it weren't so expensive and cold I might even consider moving there. Our country isn't what it once was and never will be again. Now I am going to be attacked. I can feel it coming but that is just the way I feel.

[thedude]

Originally Posted by Jack C.

For the record:
I am a child of the era Dan speaks of;
I remember watching the lottery numbers being pulled for the draft, I have retired military members in my family and have lost one family member and a few high school friends to wars including Vietnam and have nothing but respect for the veterans of all wars.

I am proud to be a third generation American, my great grandparents coming from England.

I am also old and mature enough to not be offended being called an old fart and wear it as a sort of badge of honor ???

Reading Dan's post, I do not see where he called anyone an old fart... his reference there to "The generation that wanted social change." Noone was specifically called an old fart that I could see. If all this takes is an inference to being called a name, then me being called Jacko in regards to one of my earliest posts by someone who disagreed... no offense taken as mostly I try to consider the source.

I don't see where he slandered any vets from his posting as Dan didn't speak to any veteran group in his old farts reference. The comment regarding old farts is a general statement, much more general than the specific derogatory comments made to our leadership in Washington. I totally don't agree with what all happens there, and wonder where some of these these short term memories went to when they forget a recent administration made it acceptable for an American citizen to be held, with no access to representation, for an indefinite period of time. I don't see this as something the veterans of any war fought for!

I do read a lot of the posts here and have commented on a few of them when I see humor in the close minded right wing hypocrisy spewing from most of them which seems to have the approval of the moderators, but when someone speaks their mind disagreeing, and is disrespected all seems fine, depending on who is offended it seems.

I like Dan's posts, he makes some valid posts not only about the topic but about this board in general:
"It is interesting that people are so open to being offensive in this forum, just because most people here have the same mind set. Just because you get a lot of people nodding their heads, doesn't mean that it isn't offensive. But if anyone comes through and isn't nodding their heads, then its offensive."

Within the Ticket thread, comments such as "You've got to remember than Dan talks to crazy people all day for a living. Some of it may have rubbed off on him, or another post questioning his citizenship. these postings are tolerated while Dan's feet are being held to the fire for an Old Farts reference? I don't get it.

I don't personally see why all the drama to be honest. I don't always agree with him but his posts are often colorful, entertaining, and frequently informative. Rather than kicking Dan from the board, perhaps this is a good time to restrict political posts as they seem to be the ones creating all the broo haa haa and have nothing what so ever to do with riding, though I do admit I will miss my morning coffee and daily dose of hypocrisy. This is in the hope for Dan to stay and hope we can all get past this!

"Don't blame me... I voted for Hillary"

I'm glad you said it because i coudn't have stated it better. My thoughts exactly.

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Trip didn't state he was going to kick him off the forum. Then Dan volunteered and said he would leave. All Trip ask him to do was apologize. I never saw an apology and felt one was in order. He was talking to the older generation saying we rolled over. We did our part and fought in Vietnam and other places. So we didn't roll over. That is like saying that you are a coward and people that have fought and died for this country weren't cowards.

[blowndodge]

Originally Posted by AlabamaNomadRider

Heck I even dated a girl from Toronto.

Shame on you Gene. Where are your standards!!

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Brad I think my standards may have been higher at one point. I don't know what happened to me.

[todd1960]

Wow I wished I had not read this I have only been a member for a short time and I think there is a great bunch of guys on here that would help anybody. I also think as americans we are all really short fused with our country. I don't blame anybody for it I don't think it is that simple. Also thank's to all you VETS!

[chainsaw]

I agree with GL, time to pull this thread. Enough has been said and the damage is done. Time to move on.

[bobhamlin]

I will miss you, Dan.

Your driving skills and frequent technical analyses added a scientific element to the discussions. Of course, I don't see myself riding on skateboard ramps or in the back country, so application is limited.

We've tangled around some of your descriptions of interactions with law enforcement. In several of my replies, I had to edit extensively before posting to make sure that my written words came close to communicating the same message that I could have delivered in person. I invested in the extra effort because I know you are very sharp--you just have a surprising (considering your profession) tendency toward provocation. Sometimes, the provocation is obviously intentional. Here, I think it was inadvertent.

I'm in the target audience. I served 4.5 years from 67-72 in the Army. My sig pic shows that I'm no longer the buff stud of my memory.

Dan called my entire generation of Baby-Boomers "old farts," not just the ones who served. Many of my friends accept that we qualify as "old farts." Younger generations have always called older generations some variation thereof. And we seniors have many names for the experience-challenged younger folk.

I didn't take Dan's comments personally. Our generation is - in relation to the one that produced us - incredibly self-absorbed. Too many of us regard Woodstock as a highwater achievement. Woodstock was a concert that lots of people without tickets crashed. You would think listening to music for three days without dying proved the mettle of a generation -- something on the level of Iwo Jima or Bastogne.

We have had decades to plan for how our eventual retirement would place a crushing burden on younger generations--but we ignored the problem because it involved sacrifice and risk. Now, as a generation, many of us will be working a lot longer than we thought we would.

I disagree with requiring an apology. Dan has tried to explain what he "intended" to say. That he would be suspicious of enforcement would be expected from his history of contributions. I think he can just be wrong.

I hope that those calling for an apology would objectively re-read the original posts. Would anyone not in the "old fart" generation see anything sufficiently-offensive to warrant an apology? A different opinion, however distasteful, is something we must be able to dispute. Some posters did an excellent job addressing Dan's ideas.

Dan's real offense is that he disparaged the AZ law (I think it is a GREAT law for trying to accomplish what the Federal government has failed to do.) The greatness of this country and the open arena of ideas requires thick skin. Seeing Dan's signature should be sufficient warning that "Emily Post didn't help with this one."

[Dave]

Originally Posted by voyager

Debate is good, we need it otherwise we become brainless automatons.......

You mean like Democrats?

[cactusjack]

Hey Dan, I'll miss you buddy! It's ultimately your decision to stay or go. I hope you reconsider and will stay around...

[poppy]

I would think that from this point, Trip and Dan can work the differences out via pm or private phone discussions.

I have always thought Dan's posts were informative and useful but I have not read all of them.....Who has the time for that?

Anyway, it is ultimately his decision(or the owner's) to stay or leave the site but I would certainly like to read his latest analytical information concerning his car tire.......


p.s., my older brother served during the vietnam war and lost several high school classmates. I don't imagine he would be offended by Dan's comments as he has endured worst things.....