Engine Stutter around 2000rpm

[sgoyette]

Hey Guys,

I'm feeling an engine stutter (almost like a miss) at around 2000 RPM in 1st gear. This is usually when I haven't revved up high enough to get moving....but....it's not a load related thing. I can experience it in neutral by playing with the throttle as well. Happens far more often when the bike is hot (almost always happens) vs when it's cold (happens but rarely feel much).

Any idea what could be causing this?

I also get the same issue that others have experienced where if you hit the throttle too quickly the engine will shudder and almost stop and then catch. With the air box cover off I've experienced what sounded like a backfire doing this. Not sure if they are related items or not.

Bike is still under warranty but I suspect when I take it to the local dealer they will say (as they have before) that it sounds and acts like every other vulcan 1700 they have seen....but this doesn't seem right to me.

Steve

[0vationdave]

Well, I only have about 1,700 on my Vaquero, but I can't say I have noticed that. I would find another dealer, any of them should honor the warranty.

[redjay]

Take a look at the intake leak thread.

[sgoyette]

Yup,

Having looked through the intake leak thread this certainly seems to be a likely suspect. Will attempt the leak detect this morning.

Thanks @redjay!

[Snake Ranch]

Originally Posted by sgoyette

Hey Guys,

I'm feeling an engine stutter (almost like a miss) at around 2000 RPM in 1st gear. This is usually when I haven't revved up high enough to get moving....but....it's not a load related thing. I can experience it in neutral by playing with the throttle as well. Happens far more often when the bike is hot (almost always happens) vs when it's cold (happens but rarely feel much).

Any idea what could be causing this?

I also get the same issue that others have experienced where if you hit the throttle too quickly the engine will shudder and almost stop and then catch. With the air box cover off I've experienced what sounded like a backfire doing this. Not sure if they are related items or not.

Bike is still under warranty but I suspect when I take it to the local dealer they will say (as they have before) that it sounds and acts like every other vulcan 1700 they have seen....but this doesn't seem right to me.

Steve

Good morning Steve,
No it's not right. They don't know. The common B.S. line is that is the nature of the big v-twin
Welcome to the CLUB. I have some complaints about my skoot acting in this same manner. Have been to 5 different dealers. They have told me this is a normal thing for the BIG V-Twins, or they would contact the factory, then tell me to contact the factory myself, or they would want to research this and said they would call me back, BUT THEY DON'T. One tech even told me this was normal for this v-twin with a shaft drive. Almost got into an argument when I told him it was not a shaft drive.

This is what they call a driveability issue. What I have learned is unless you can tell them what the problem is your "warranty" has about as much value as the paper it is written on.
This engine platform and throttle control seems to be new to these shops on this model and they are not going to invest any time trying to correct a problem that seems to be in the computer / electrical / emissions area that they have very little knowledge or support.

When you ask the direct question, "What specifically is causing this to happen," the silence has become overwhelming for me. THEY DON'T KNOW.
When I ask the factory specific questions design or engineering information , I am told they don't know as the information is in Japan and they don't speak Japanese.

Because I have been making a pest of myself about this issue with the dealers in my area the factory issued a work order and wanted to check the intake for a known problem with the intake seals that would leak. To make a long story short they changed the intake manifold runners, the part between the throttle body and the heads. Now it runs worse. They even changed the ECU. The tech said he tried every thing he could think of to correct the problem. What he observed it the throttle plates moving back and forth without any input from the throttle grip. It used to be most noticeable in 1st gear only @ 1800-2000 rpm. Now it surges in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th as high as 3000 rpm with the throttle grip held steady.
The dealer tech thought the problem was in the throttle assembly. The Factory Rep rode a new bike to compare it to mine. Said it did the same thing sooooo they were not going to spend any more time on this issue.THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT IS CAUSING THIS TO HAPPEN. IF THEY DO, WHY WON'T THEY FIX IT.

Another question I have is why do some of these Vaquero's do this and some don't. RacinRay has the same year model as mine and he says his has never done this. Mine has done this from the beginning.
One thought I have is, could this be due to manufacturing tolerances? So far I have not heard any Voyager owners complain about this issue. Do the Voyagers have a better fuel system?

Under the correct conditions this COULD be a safety issue. These dealer and factory people all have a common thought, WE don't know how to ride. Just accelerate through this problem area or decelerate through it. The lack of mental gymnastics never ceases to amaze me. Still gets back to THEY DON'T KNOW. I get the feeling they try to baffle me with B.S. But just ask the question directly, What is causing this to happen, then wait for it, the answer I am talking about.

AS I'M STILL WAITING.

So now where do we go from here?

[redjay]

"One thought I have is, could this be due to manufacturing tolerances? So far I have not heard any Voyager owners complain about this issue. Do the Voyagers have a better fuel system?"

My 2010 Voyager has none of the issues you describe. I would have thought the fuel system on all the 1700's would be the same ?

[Snake Ranch]

Originally Posted by redjay

"One thought I have is, could this be due to manufacturing tolerances? So far I have not heard any Voyager owners complain about this issue. Do the Voyagers have a better fuel system?"

My 2010 Voyager has none of the issues you describe. I would have thought the fuel system on all the 1700's would be the same ?

I would think they are all the same also. But I don't remember any Voyager owners reporting any conditions like we Vaquero owners have been experiencing. So I am wondering why?

[redjay]

Maybe the engines on Voyagers and Vaqueros are assembled on a different line ? Maybe the ECU's are programmed differently ?

I seem to remember reading that there was a subtle difference between the Voyager and Vaquero engine performance ?

I cant remember if it was ECU programming or ?

[ctc6698]

Maybe I've got the same deal....I notice mostly in 1st, and as the bike's temp get's hotter, that it will stutter upon take off from a stop. If it had a carb, I'd say it acts like it loaded up and then burped it out. I also get a strong fuel smell that comes up from the engine area, but can't find any obvious cause.
Finally, when cruising with the c/c on, it feels like it's surging then also...up, down, up, down.
Same issue as you guys???
Henry
2011 Vaq

[redjay]

Does the ECU on the Vaquero and Voyager have the same part number ?

[Hollywood448]

I started a thread about this after I got my bike. I was told that I was lugging the bike and that they like higher RPM's. Mine does not do it every time, and it does not matter what gear I am in. There are times I will get a backfire and the motor will almost die, most of the time this is at lower RPM's (below 2,000) and usually in 1st gear. But there is a definite miss or a hiccup at times at that 1,900-2,000 mark.

[kawboysix]

CHECK THIS OUT! Go to vulcanforums.com and look up posts by a member named RACNRAY. He's a bike shop owner in florida and he has developed and performed a throttle modification for YOUR bike. He developed this due to his Vaq. doing the same thing. He has done this numerous times as it is a common gremlin in those bikes where the butterflys in the throttle body are not opening enough on slight excel to maintain steady fuel/air input. Feels like a surging or hesitation. Everyone who has had this done claims magic was done and also way better throttle response across the board.

Oh and he claims it won't void your warranty and he'll p.m. you the mod. to do your self if you would like.

[ctc6698]

Originally Posted by kawboysix

CHECK THIS OUT! Go to vulcanforums.com and look up posts by a member named RACNRAY. He's a bike shop owner in florida and he has developed and performed a throttle modification for YOUR bike. He developed this due to his Vaq. doing the same thing. He has done this numerous times as it is a common gremlin in those bikes where the butterflys in the throttle body are not opening enough on slight excel to maintain steady fuel/air input. Feels like a surging or hesitation. Everyone who has had this done claims magic was done and also way better throttle response across the board.

Oh and he claims it won't void your warranty and he'll p.m. you the mod. to do your self if you would like.

Think you're referring to Ray's throttle mod which involves a modification to the throttle grip. Ray is on this forum too. I've already got this done to my bike and not the same animal.

[kawboysix]

Sorry just tryin to help. I got a little a.d.d. goin on sometimes an I bounce around a lot. thought that sounded like the same situation goin on. Thanks for set me straight tho. I need it sometimes.

[Snake Ranch]

Originally Posted by Snake Ranch

I would think they are all the same also. But I don't remember any Voyager owners reporting any conditions like we Vaquero owners have been experiencing. So I am wondering why?

I spoke to the president of NORCAL VOYAGERS club today. His name is Don Medina, and he reports there are owners of Voyagers who experience this herky jerky issue with the 1700's. So this issue is not isolated to the Vaquero's.