Darksiders & those interested

[trosco]

I can't take credit for finding this. Taz FL posted it in the VROC forum. It's very interesting explanation of motorcycle tire construction by Bridgestone.
The link hasn't dulled my interest in CT for bikes but it makes me think that perhaps the stiffer sidewall of 8 ply truck&van tires are a good choice for bikes. That may also explain the growing use of runflats because they have reinforced side walls.
here's the link:
http://www.trackaddix.com/images/mis...nformation.pdf

[dkdixie]

trosco, not saying stiffer sidewalls is a bad idea, but I believe you think ct sidewalls flex more than they really do.
There are numerous guys running 205's with 1 to 2 credit card clearance between tire sidewall and drive shaft, yet I've heard none complain about tire rubbing being an issue.

[phenrichs]

and just FYI. Say hi. Taz is here now too.
HI TAZ!

[tazfl]

Originally Posted by OP

and just FYI. Say hi. Taz is here now too.
HI TAZ!

LOL...ummmm Hi :)

[dogdoc]

Boy there are enough facts and numbers on there to make a guy go blind. :-)

[blowndodge]

Can I just read until I need glasses?

[dougster]

O.K. let me get this right.

A brochure from Bridgestone, who makes such wonderful motorcycle tires, . . .
full of technical jargon (quite interesting, actually), and typos and grammar errors (not so interesting) . . . explaining why motorcycle tires are so expensive?

I think I will put more stock in the explanations I get from Mac, BD, CJ, etc.!

[trosco]

DK, you are right, I am still working this out in my mind.
I think that if you read the info carefully it would lead someone (like me) to think that the MT design is superior when the tire is operating at extreme lean angles with extreme lateral force while heavy acceleration or deceleration force is applied but not a very good design when use in a straight line.
Conversely the CT design would be superior in straight line or when the tire is operating at moderate lean angles with moderate lateral force while moderate acceleration or deceleration force is applied.
I think that means (for me on my bike the way I ride it) that about 99% of the time the CT is a better choice for my rear tire. Now I just have to decide among the available CT's which one is the best choice.

[dkdixie]

Originally Posted by trosco

DK, you are right, I am still working this out in my mind.
I think that if you read the info carefully it would lead someone (like me) to think that the MT design is superior when the tire is operating at extreme lean angles with extreme lateral force while heavy acceleration or deceleration force is applied but not a very good design when use in a straight line.
Conversely the CT design would be superior in straight line or when the tire is operating at moderate lean angles with moderate lateral force while moderate acceleration or deceleration force is applied.
I think that means (for me on my bike the way I ride it) that about 99% of the time the CT is a better choice for my rear tire. Now I just have to decide among the available CT's which one is the best choice.

Now you got it!
CT's work well for our cruiser bikes, but would not perform the same on sport bikes due to the "possible" extreme lean angle.

I once heard an "experienced and very knowledgeable" rider state there wasn't a motorcycle made the "he" couldn't lean over at a 45 degree angle in a curve.
Not sure of the maximum possible lean angle on a Nomad, but its not close to 45 degrees.
A friend of mine that works for Harley told me the "max" possible lean angle on Harley cruisers was around 37 degrees.
Afler that, there's floorboards, crash bars, etc that get in the way....

[blowndodge]

I'd like to take on those "motorcycle tire manufacturers" comments on tire construction head on!

I asked this question to one last year and just got a stupid stare:

Have you ever seen a slow motion video of a stock Porche, Corvette or Viper in a full power drift on a racetrack. If you haven't you can find that on You Tube. If one of these "monster" machings is in a full power slide drift say turning left, take a real good look at that right front tire and rim!

You see that the rim is almost touching the pavement and the tire's sidewall flexes under the rim against over 1G of corning force!

Now ask yourself if that car tire doesn't? have the ability to flex the same way with 1/5 the weight and 10 times less horsepower on a motorcycle?

It's plain to see that the cornering forces of a supercar are far far far harder on the sidewalls than our Nomads are going to put a car tire through!!

[reddog]

Personally, seeing the grammatical skills of a 4th grader doesn't inspire a lot of trust in the technical information on that paper. If I were to put out a paper trying to sway people to use my tires, I'd have someone proof-read it. That being said, there's a lot of info there- but I don't think it's going to influence my decision on whether or not to use a CT on my bike very much. I trust personal experience more than theoretical guesswork. And as far as I can tell- there's not much of a group of people who've actually tried it and don't like it! I'm still on a MT currently- but the more I research, the more I think I may replace this stock tire with a CT when it wears out.
Anyway- just my $.2.

[macmac]

BD, I agree, and would add that since we can lean the inside sidewall bends with a radial rear, ending up in allowing the outside to stay stiffer and longer. in 4,500 miles I see no sign of edge or sidewall wear, and i was looking at the tread today, and see no meaning full wear.

There is this S turn I like to mess with too, very close to where I live and the feel is just outstanding running that corner.

I am trying to get used to touching the boards down, but the sound send shivers up my spine, and i tend to back off.

I know there is just so far they will go, and then when they won't it's over.. i don't have the contro;; I would like at that point yet

[Yellow Jacket]

Several have commented on the typos and poor grammar of the Bridgestone paper. The main reason for this is because it was written in Japanese. It was then translated to English by a Japanese translator. The service manuals we get from Kawasaki are nearly as bad.

It sure would be nice if they would produce a higher quality level of translation. And at least check for typo's!

[ells]

Damn, the grammar police are out, I better call in my copy editor before I post much more... :)

Okay, the errors in the piece are rather blatant, and if I notice it has got to be bad.

Re CTs - I've haven't posted on this topic before but find myself considering it given all the positive statements here and as referenced from elsewhere.

However, I've heard two things from those running them that cause me the most concern, especially since I really can afford the extra cost of the MC tires at least for now.

1. " They sure do want to make the bike set up straight"

and

2. At some point in a sharp enough turn you can feel it ride up on the edge"

Wrt #1 - I don't want my bike wanting to do anything I don't want it to when it comes to leaning. If it wants to set up straight and I want it to lean a little I'm not going to be happy, going straight when I need to turn a little is not good.

Wrt #2 This suggests that at that edge point the tire really wants you on one side or the other of that edge and that may not be where I want to be. Not a comfortable thing to me. Perhaps this varies CT to CT since some of the pics here have shown some roundness but others are flat as a board.

I suppose all this might be considered off-base by those that have the CT tire and haven't experienced this or if you think that I an overly concerned about relatively minor things, and you might be right. Just thought I'd mention a couple concerns I still have even after seeing and reading a lot of what has been discussed here.

[dkdixie]

Ells, on a turn with m/c tire, and you roll off the throttle, do you feel the bike want to straighten up?

And your second point about feeling the tire riding on the edge.....I've never heard this mentioned before by anyone using ct. Not doubting somebody said it, I've just never heard it before nor have I experienced it in over 10,000 miles with car tire. And believe me, I've scrapped enough boards.

This picture shows a pretty aggressive turn by an experienced car tire rider. Looks to me its a long way from being on or over the edge.

You do bring up an interesting point, and one I'm going to post on the Darkside forum just to see if anybody has really felt "being on the edge."