Motorcycles and Firearms

[Bull Durham]

Well, I think BDog has stated his opinion, and you guys just don't want to except that it is his opinion. Kind of getting into the mob mentality now. As Ponch said: Situational Awareness. It's a whole lot better than stupid.

I for one know that a lot of people may have carry permits, and all of you will say you would use a gun on someone (machismo talk), but I guarantee the majority of you, when it came right down to it, wouldn't pull the trigger. Unless you've been there, done that, don't assume that you would or even think you wouldn't have a problem. And if you did pull the trigger, again, the majority of you would miss, unless the guy was pushing himself onto the end of your gun.

[cactusjack]

Yeah, your right..we're "all hat and no cattle". ::)

Speaking strictly for myself, as someone who was robbed at gunpoint one night while working a minimum wage job in a convenience store, I can only say that I never want to experience the feeling of total helplessness as I did that night ever again.

I qualified numerous times as a rifle and pistol expert in the Marine Corps and I'm pretty sure I can hit what I'm aiming at.

[Bull Durham]

CJ,

Here's the problem with law abiding citizens. Your not going to be sitting somewhere with your gun out, pointing it at every person within shooting distance. So, being the law abiding citizen that you are, you're going to be a nice, responsible guy and have it tucked under your shirt, in a inside holster, etc. By the time an untrained citizen, that never has anything to do with violence (I'm not talking about having a beer with your buddy and punching one another, or fighting with your siblings) even realizes that they are in a bad situation, guess what? It's too late.

This ain't TV, and most people aren't Dirty Harry. The reason most law abiding citizens carry is because it makes their own mind, at ease.

[Top Cat]

Bull, I'm not calling your name. I'm stating what I think your last posts are.
Some of us actually practice with our carry weapon
You know, go out and shoot the thing at silhouette targets and all that stuff.
There is no doubt in my mind what so ever if I knew my life, my wife's life, or my children s lives were in danger of being ended by some psycho or common armed robber, I would pull the trigger and I would hit what I am trying to hit.
I'm not saying if a thug had a gun pointed at me I would try to get my weapon into service before he could shoot me. That would be suicide.
I'm saying being aware of your surroundings and the mannerisms of people around you will go along way in being prepared for trouble.

[usranger74]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

CJ,

Here's the problem with law abiding citizens. Your not going to be sitting somewhere with your gun out, pointing it at every person within shooting distance. So, being the law abiding citizen that you are, you're going to be a nice, responsible guy and have it tucked under your shirt, in a inside holster, etc. By the time an untrained citizen, that never has anything to do with violence (I'm not talking about having a beer with your buddy and punching one another, or fighting with your siblings) even realizes that they are in a bad situation, guess what? It's too late.

This ain't TV, and most people aren't Dirty Harry. The reason most law abiding citizens carry is because it makes their own mind, at ease.

Bull

I think your last statement is true, most that carry do so as it makes them feel more at easy. Frankly, that would be true of me.

However, while you have outlined a scenario above that has occurred and no doubt will occur again, there are many real life examples where a pvt citizen has saved his/her life or the life of another because they were carrying. That is, there are many scenarios where one has or will have the opportunity to draw, aim and fire.

I do think your point of, "if you are not willing to use it don't carry it" is a good point. If you pull it you better be willing to use it.

The bottom line in most of this thread is many of us do not believe USAs Government should tell us we can not carry. And, I think most of us under stand that our Canadian and for that matter Australian friends have a different system and a different point of view.

[Dave]

Bull,

Were / are you a cop? Sure sounds like one.

[Bdog]

I'm not about to go into scenorios because its on the same level as politics..who is right? Its what you think is right. There are many ways to defend yourself and its not always with guns. I too have logged on about 1/2 million miles on a bike in the states alone in the past 40 yrs. and have never been in a situation where I needed to pack, but like I said..thats my upbringing....which is what I know. I do know firearms as I spent time in the military. I also use to pack a 9mm when mountain hiking to scare off (not to plug) wildlife (cougars, bears, wolverines etc.). Bdog

[Kawhead]

Originally Posted by Dave

Bull,

Were / are you a cop? Sure sounds like one.

I've met Bull and think a lot of him,and still do. He's a stand up guy.

Based on my experience of making acquaintances with local Sheriff's Deputies and State Troopers, my logical guess/answer is No and No.


He'd make a horrible State Prosecutor based on this argument, "I for one know that a lot of people may have carry permits, and all of you will say you would use a gun on someone (machismo talk), but I guarantee the majority of you, when it came right down to it, wouldn't pull the trigger. Unless you've been there, done that, don't assume that you would or even think you wouldn't have a problem. And if you did pull the trigger, again, the majority of you would miss, unless the guy was pushing himself onto the end of your gun."

A wet behind the ears, Criminal Defense Intern could tear that reasoning out of the frame, and score an acquittal! That statement is shallow, flaccid, and has no foundation. For one thing he'd have to be present or have a reliable resource to document a rare situation in which (God forbid) one of the C/C permitters would need to send a deserving bstrd to hell where he needs to be. And record the results of 100% in order what % freeze and piss themselves.

That would take a tremendous amount of time, and comparing different actions in altercations would be imposable so we can't go there to do that in order to been there done that.

I'm gonna quit now. Lord knows I don't want to be called something nasty like macho. I want to be a limp wist, and rely on LEO's to protect me. Don't send one with a gun either. Me or the poor assailant might get shot. ::)

[macmac]

Bull, I been there pulled the trigger, and if there is a next time (I hope not) I will pull the trigger faster than I did last time and I will aim higher than low back and legs, as I did last time. I didn't like it then, I won't like it, if it happens again, but for so long as I waste air on this side of the grass i will defend my family and myself.

[nomadtom69]

#1 I am to old to fight and do not plan on having body harm done to me or my family I WILL PULL THE TRIGGER if I feel in danger of harm
#2 I carry because it is my right to protect mine and in Tennessee I have the right to protect others as well

#3 I have more feelings for the deer I harvest in the fall than I do for a Thug Crook or Theif and I shoot them to feed my family so yes I will pull the trigger

[Bull Durham]

I'm glad I got you guys on a different train of thought, instead of all the chest thumping I was seeing on here. Some got my point, others didn't. I too, believe it is every citizens right to carry a gun. What I was having a problem with, is the people trying to say that because they CARRY a weapon, they are going to be safe and shoot someone that threatens them with violence. It's not about shooting silhoutes, it's not about learning how to shoot weapons in the military, it's about the psychological will, the mind set, to point the gun and pull the trigger. As I said, unless you've been there, you have no idea IF you can do it. It's kind of like Buck Fever.

Now, Mac was never thumping his chest, he made the statement of what happened to his family and of another situation where someone was in his house. Now, being a good person, he actually went through with pulling the trigger, but notice that even when he did, he shot low instead of blowing the fu&$kers brains out. Why? I can tell you, he probably doesn't know why, because it's a psychological thing. A good person really doesn't want to blow someones brains out, not if they can help it. Now, I know people will come back and say if they're family is threatened, etc, etc, they'd have no problem pulling the trigger. Believe what you want that you would have no problem, but I'm putting money down that most of you in that split second to react, you hesitate. That's human, unless you're some type of psychopath. And the bad guy doesn't hesitate.

Now another point I was trying to make: If you're a normal person / citizen, you're not really going to know if you are in a bad situation and be able to react with lightning reflexes and plug the guy. Here, I'll try and explain it this way. Let's pretend I'm the "bad guy" people are talking about, and I want something that you have and I'm going to take it from you no matter what. Do you think I'm going to forecast my intentions to you that I'm going to harm you? No! I'm going to let you walk by me then bash your frigging head in, because I'm a bad guy, I'm not going to play fair. Do you understand that?

Let's take Detroit for another example. Detroit use to be the murder capital of the U.S. at one time. But right across the river is Windsor, Canada. Now, were talking about 500 yards distance? And yet, because of the difference in the countries and mindsets, there were almost no murders. Doesn't mean that Canada doesn't have crime, they just have a different mindset. And no, I'm not going to try and fathom what and why the differences are between the countries and differences in crimes, that's for someone way smarter than me. What I am going to say though, is you should except BDog statement / opinion as his, and just because you like to carry a gun doesn't mean you're right and he is wrong.

Now, once again for the gunslingers, I too believe in everyone's right to carry. It's our country and constitution, therefore, we should not be pigeonholed between the different states and different laws, different CCW laws, etc.

[leadbelly]

Originally Posted by jwg383

Or how about this scenario: Your sitting stopped on your bike somewhere and suddenly someone rushes you, tries to push off, and take your bike. Are you gonna just stand there and let them take it? It happens.

Sure, we have all these problems in Canada. That's where the cops come in. Our Mounties always get the bad guys

[Bull Durham]

LeadBelly,

On a different subject, that is sure some beautiful countryside in your signature pics. Is that right around where you live? Breath taking!

[leadbelly]

Originally Posted by Bull Durham

LeadBelly,

On a different subject, that is sure some beautiful countryside in your signature pics. Is that right around where you live? Breath taking!

It sure is. That was taken in Kananaskis Provicial Park and Banff, Alberta about 1.5 hours West of Calgary. I am very fortunate to have some fairly scenic rides close by.

[Top Cat]

fairly scenic he says
I would love to ride in that kind of scenery.