Question for Obama Haters

[NRiderUSA]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

Rick throw that in the face of a liberal democrat and he'll argue a "dixie" democrat is not the same thing... spin spin spin spin...

Sad truth (as I believe it) if the Democrats wouldnt keep it alive racism might have a chance of becoming extinct and something they talk about from the past... but it isnt going to happen, they cant win without that demon existing.... so in essence the Democrats are still fighting to keep slavery intact.

[Loafer]

I know that most everyone agrees that there are people that need assistance, and there are many who don't. I have always thought that an agency giving away our money should be scrutinized very closely. And made to answer with their jobs being lost for bending the rules. This action alone would save tons of money.
Cutting back on the wrong groups of people is always what they do.
For instance, our local high school didn't have a football team 20 years ago. Some of the boys wanted to have a team. They started a team with the school's permission, they were a 'Club Sport' not to ever need any support financially from the school. I said from the beginning that wouldn't last. The second year of the club sport most of the players had transferred to another local school so they could play on a better team, and win some games. The core group is gone but they raised interest enough, so now the students left footed their own bills. Well, time went by and the school wanted to look better in the football division, so they decided to pay for the coach, and so on and so on. Now they pay for everything and it is on the school budget. When they want to cut back on the budget, do they get rid of the football team? No, they try to cancel a science teacher or a language teacher. Do they try to change some of the full time people in the kitchen to part time? No, they farm out the bussing, and instead of laying off the bus drivers, they make them janitors. They always find a way to keep spending more money and telling you they are saving the school from bankrupcy.
Does this all sound familiar? It should because that is the way the state of Vt. runs it's business, and the federal gov't does it too.
How do you fix anything when they keep coming up with ideas, that fool the people. And then a couple years later everyone finds out that it didn't work. But it must have been some else's mistake not mine.
I'll stop now. This makes sense to me, how about you?

[NRiderUSA]

The politicians have had over 200 years to perfect SCAM's and word magic..... and they are all ex-Lawyers...... they can play with words better than fish can swim.

How many times have you seen a politican asked a simple yes or no question and 30 minutes later he's still talking hasnt answered the question that you have probably been distracted so much from you forgot what you asked?....... the are Professionals at snow jobs and avoiding.

[pagemastr]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

Pagemastr your thoughts are well spelled out and I appreciate your approach. But as Greg point out, we are a capitalistic society. Driven by profit; period .

So let me ask, the bailouts of the banks, GM, all driven by a capitalistic society, let's face it, they were begging for Gov money, our money, and we gladly gave it to them. At least the Car companies have paid most of their bailout back, not so much for the banks...which the Feds seem to have secretly loaned an additional $7B at ~.5% interest and subseuently used to invest in Fed bonds paying 3%. You are right, "driven by profits," some of us call it greed....so much for the beloved Calitalism argument!

Originally Posted by blowndodge

For you to believe business is driven by a social valuation your (you're)really saying you believe in Socialism..and that's ok if you can see and admit it

Social valuation, like expecting an insurance company to not drop me from coverage just because I might get more sick than they might have expected? Call me a socialist if I expect to not lose coverage for insurance I have paid on for decades? Call me a socialist if I expect my Dr. to be making medical decisions for me and not my health insurance company. Call me a socialist if I expect some health insurance to be available for a pre-existing condition if I were to get laid off and have to change jobs, at any cost. How many here would likely be declined coverage under those conditions? Most who commented on my previous post are likely around my age, and I have to ask how many could even afford their meds if denied insurance or without their Medicare?
[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

How successful do you thin(k) the two Gulf wars would have turned out if prior to it a Socialistic America would have commanded Rockwell, Northup/Grumman and other military outlets to build smart bombs, drones, patriot missiles, cruise missiles and told them they will make them at a predetermined gov't controlled cost? they wouldn't exist today.

Problem with that suggestion... on so many levels is to suggest I propose a socialistic government. My entire working life has been related to Manufacturing and I do know how the system works. You have it wrong where you suggest "The makers of these products developed them and then came to the gov't with their ideas that we could launch an attack from afar with minimal loss of life with pinpoint accuracy guided by GPS. They saw a potential huge profit to be made if they turned a want into a need."

At least with the projects I worked on at Rockwell with the B1B, MX missle and Space Shuttle programs, the air force goes to the contractors with a need, contractors develop a prototype, and beg for the contract. I can't think of any instances of what you mentioned where a proposal was made to the Gov. with "hey, I can give you this if you can pay me this much"... it doesn't work that way! You are losing credibility on that statement as all of the projects I worked on at Rockwell were awarded in the manner I described above.

Originally Posted by blowndodge

... but considering we've been a nation for only 235 odd years and have the richest citizens, highest standard of living and the strongest military on earth, we've done good. Our currency is still the most sought.

In spite of President Obama I suppose

"For O'bama to say we've had it wrong"... lost me here I will admit, (while also wondering why people insist on the apostrophe in his name where none exists).

[NRiderUSA]

Most people would agree that the car Bailouts should not have happened (unless your a GM worker of course)... let bad management suffer the consequences and lose their jobs too.
Same thing with the Banks.... bad Management (which by the way I believe I have seen several reports as to Obama being the biggest recipient of donations from during his election... ever)

Anyway, lets carry that line of thinking backward to the root and pull it out too.... the Barney Franks, Chris Dodds, Pelosi's and any other politician who made and hid the problems that started the ball rolling by insuring they could do what they did.

The fact that Obama's 1st priority was being the Health Care person versus Jobs, Housing market, deficit... hell the list is too long but apparently not as important as his high priority get throughs while he had total power with all democrats blocking and passing anything they wanted to.

So as to your last statement.....I would clarify with a follow up: In spite of Obama "So Far".... might not be saying that if he gets a second term

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by pagemastr

At least the Car companies have paid most of their bailout back, not so much for the banks...which the Feds seem to have secretly loaned an additional $7B at ~.5% interest and subseuently used to invest in Fed bonds paying 3%.

Pagemaster... you really need to look up your facts.

Bank of America paid every last dime back to the government with an 8% interest payment in advance. Period. Other large banks did also... so you are DEAD wrong about that!

GM still owes the taxpayers a lot of money and are not likely going to pay them off for a long, long time, if ever. Even when the government finally says they paid it off; it will hide the fact that some of the interest owed has already been waived.

You sir, are DEAD WRONG with your statement -- and since you started with BS... I didn't take another moment to read any more of what you posted.

Just quit posting BS lies and start getting your facts straight mister... or don't post at all.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by NRiderUSA

Most people would agree that the car Bailouts should not have happened (unless your a GM worker of course)... let bad management suffer the consequences and lose their jobs too.
Same thing with the Banks.... bad Management (which by the way I believe I have seen several reports as to Obama being the biggest recipient of donations from during his election... ever)

Anyway, lets carry that line of thinking backward to the root and pull it out too.... the Barney Franks, Chris Dodds, Pelosi's and any other politician who made and hid the problems that started the ball rolling by insuring they could do what they did.

The fact that Obama's 1st priority was being the Health Care person versus Jobs, Housing market, deficit... hell the list is too long but apparently not as important as his high priority get throughs while he had total power with all democrats blocking and passing anything they wanted to.

So as to your last statement.....I would clarify with a follow up: In spite of Obama "So Far".... might not be saying that if he gets a second term

If we were a had a truly capitalistic economy, those banks and car companies would have had to find their own solution to their problems and just as likely, in the case of the banks, some of them would not have had problems to begin with. Most of the problems here were due to government intervention, not lack thereof.

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by ponch

If we were a had a truly capitalistic economy, those banks and car companies would have had to find their own solution to their problems and just as likely, in the case of the banks, some of them would not have had problems to begin with. Most of the problems here were due to government intervention, not lack thereof.

Here Here!!

[blowndodge]

So what the feds will do is create a new "oversite" committee or new program to fix the crappy program already run by the feds. Medicare (fed program) will be fixed by Obamacare (fed program)

[blowndodge]

Originally Posted by glwilson

Pagemaster... you really need to look up your facts.

Bank of America paid every last dime back to the government with an 8% interest payment in advance. Period. Other large banks did also... so you are DEAD wrong about that!

GM still owes the taxpayers a lot of money and are not likely going to pay them off for a long, long time, if ever. Even when the government finally says they paid it off; it will hide the fact that some of the interest owed has already been waived.

You sir, are DEAD WRONG with your statement -- and since you started with BS... I didn't take another moment to read any more of what you posted.

Just quit posting BS lies and start getting your facts straight mister... or don't post at all.

He has Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae confused with BofA. The only financial institution still underwater and losing money!

[Netnorske]

Here's another thing that kills me about liberals.....

While Bill Maher and all the rest of the liberal media can spout all kinds of outrageous garbage about conservatives...conservatives will line up one after another and fight to the death to protect their right to do so....

Rush Limbaugh says something off color and the liberal left want him off the air....period....completely silenced. They want advertisers boycotted....now Media Matters is running ads in several cities to try and kick him off in those places. Obviously, they have zero respect for the 1st Amendment....or any other piece of constitutional law that gives anyone not agreeing with them an audience..... Rush must really be kicking their asses these days....

As far as the racial issues in America, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have done more to keep racism alive and well in this country than any two guys on the planet! As soon as the racial and class divisions in this country go away....so does the liberal agenda and those who keep pushing it on everyone else. By keeping those divisions alive and well....the libs know they can keep buying those votes....and keep killing our country in the process. It's sad really....

[NRiderUSA]

They are afraid, they didnt realize they would wake up America.

Since the "New Deal" they had word of mouth and could beat that... the internet has cut off their anonymity and hiding.
The videos of their lies are viral, the words coming out of their mouths follow up by the truth they had been able to hide doesnt work anymore.

They set up the failure of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.... then act like they came to the rescue of the disaster they perpetuated. Have you noticed the high ranking Dems deciding to retire instead of run again which is not the norm, usually they die in office? Wonder why that would be?
Leave that to your own speculations, I have mine.

They got total control over anything and everything they wanted and they have been on a spending spree up until 2010 when they lost that total power... WHat would happen to your household or any buisness if they spent everything there was claiming it will make them more profitable? AND what if you kept spending beyond what you could make and beyond that?

They pass a Health Care bill less 3 republican Senators by entirely Democrat votes at night going into a weekend that 67% of Americans did not want.
Hell its so Good some of them claim they didnt even read it, Pelosi said wait till we pass it to find out whats in it..... and the best part of all out of their own mouths when asked are they going to be on it too.......nope.... guess that sums up how good it is in actions not BS.

They called the people pointing out the Abortion, illegals being covered by clauses etc etc liars.... here we are 2 years later and it turns out they were the liars.... not the ones trying to prevent this from happening.

They said it would cost 1.6T$ and when the CBO even said those numbers were fudged said that it was not a fact and pushed it through anyway... here we are again... and the truth is what was trying to be told when they were manufacturing ways to get it through... at least 2 to 3 times that amount.

They promised you would be able to keep you insurance if you didnt want to do this.. another now we know lie in it makes sure your insurance wont be able to stay in buisness so word games on truth again.

One of Obama's many promises was to cut the deficit in half his first term, and the first thing he starts on is spending on his healthcare bill.
Jobs 3 years later and now its a priority.

The head of the tax laws guy, Rangel gets caught in a 20M$ ooppppps I didnt know that was illegal lie and gets re-elected inspite of it.

John Kerry gets caught parking his yacht in another state to avoid paying the taxes he imposed on the same people he represents.

They get bills from the congress that they wont even look at pass or fail so it appears that nothing is getting done and then blame congress when the Senate is in fact the blocker... playing with words to distract from the truth.

They take credit for things that were already put into motion that make it appear they were the ones who did it to distract from the actual blocks they put into place to insure failure.

Thats why they are targeting any media source that shows what they said versus what they knew and did exposing their true colors........and trying to get control of the only media they cant control "yet" the internet.... if they open that door with one of their "Aint really hurting anything" promise to get control over it like they almost have over the media.......we will all lose.

Keep the message going and they cannot win..... although they will try every legal loophole they can find to shut up anyone who doesnt talk the talk they want.

Sounds kind of corny to some I'm sure.. but its all fact and its out there to see, all anyone has to do is look or be shown.

History repeats itself and if you do any kind of investigating, you can find this exact senerio and the results if you willing to look for it.

[pagemastr]

Originally Posted by glwilson

Pagemaster... you really need to look up your facts.

Bank of America paid every last dime back to the government with an 8% interest payment in advance. Period. Other large banks did also... so you are DEAD wrong about that!

GM still owes the taxpayers a lot of money and are not likely going to pay them off for a long, long time, if ever. Even when the government finally says they paid it off; it will hide the fact that some of the interest owed has already been waived.

You sir, are DEAD WRONG with your statement -- and since you started with BS... I didn't take another moment to read any more of what you posted.

Just quit posting BS lies and start getting your facts straight mister... or don't post at all.

Mister... been a long time since being called that with that tone! Damm my luck however, BOA happened to be one bank that did pay theirs back and all would be good if not for, well, see for yourself:

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/s...t/bankbailout/

But you didn't deny the banks using money printed by the feds to secretly prop themselves up, which they made millions on... are you really OK with that... really... just to make a political point on a forum? I did however mis-type: $7TRILLION not billion... http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business...mberg-reports/ but it is OK, I mean it was for the banks and all, and we all know how great citizens they are... mind boggling! How much of this has been paid back? Why were they in such a hurry to pay their TARP loans... please, honestly... tell me... I bet you will never guess! Pssstt... it might have had something to do with their bonuses.

I have no reason to lie here, my facts are straight, my logic reasoned (as stated above), and a simple google search linking as much as I can to non-paritisan sites to confirm my statements, most often before I make them, totally unlike most here who continually post opinions as fact while more laughably try to offer supporting evidence with links to, of all places... are you ready for this... faux news, or other sites which are by nature going to support your opinion. (OMG, please don't block me for mis-spelling FO.... I can't do it ). Would be like me trying to support an argument of mine with a link to MSNBC... get it? To say I am DEAD wrong; show me a site that contradicts this one which is not politically biased... my bet, unlikely, but hey, I am not so close minded that I will read it anyhow!

I love how easy it is for me to get someone calling me a liar even before they do a simple Google search... you guys make this too easy Admit it wilson... really, you did read the rest of my post except you couldn't find anything else to comment on... I mean, come on, I do at least read through all of yours and others here... ROFLMAO most of the time.

"Just quit posting BS lies and start getting your facts straight mister... or don't post at all." With Presidential elections around the corner, and with the current Republican field that even Republicans can't make up their mind over who can be the most extreme... not a chance! Bet y'all now wish you had your etch-a-sketch from childhood to play with!

[pagemastr]

Love the references to Freddie / Fanny: them damm lib's
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...eddie-mac.html Seem to be forgetting history faster each day. No one is immune for blame here! But Gingrich calling out Freddie / Fannie, this man is so full of crap that he makes Ron Paul look like a viable Republican candidate... but it is OK, he is not a liberal and he has our best interest in mind right?

[blowndodge]

as soon as you typed faux news i knew you had no educational skills to have a debate.
that term has been used by every extreme liberal in the printed media. since you have no idea of Greg's background you sound like a terrorist debating him.