OK Guys....Here is my short list

[ponch]

His incantation regarding victory bikes

[blowndodge]

Hey guys... what to know why Kris bought an XCT??? Take a guess. And this was a few months after the Voyager.

what kris stated is true. From the beginning all of us have commented on why the Nomad didn't have this or come "this way" or some corner cutting that have annoyed lots of us. This does not imply that the Nomad was a bad start! From the beginning Kawasaki did the Nomad proud and the frame design and larger motor in 2005 caused sales to really pick up. I for one was expecting all the best in the next few years so i could stay with that brand.

When I rode the big Vic at the motorcycle show is wasn't that I was so impressed as i was swearing under my helmet, "This is exactly where I thought the Nomad was headed too!". Motor feels 40% stronger, quieter valve and cam noise. Instrumentation that looks like it came off a Mercedes. Cruise, super storage, and the most surprising thing that all the 2009 Nomads, Vaqueros and Voyagers owners talk about, it has more room than the original big 1600 Nomads. A LOT more room. Some have commented on the 2009 forward's redesign the Kawasakis feel smaller. I've sat on them and they are a little bit more "on the tank" feeling.

All the comments members make about how they love their 1600 Nomad because of this or that reason i don't question. But those reasons you like that "version" of Nomad the best is the reason Kris, I and others went the route we did. Everything the Nomad did for us the Vic does it that much better. More room, power, 5 more mpg's bigger tank, overdrive, largest storage of all touring bikes and that traditional V-Twin laid back feel!

Kris even admitted to me his Nomad had more room and better ergos than his Voyager and I didn't doubt him in the least. His Vic has it that much more over his Nomad...

As repeated I'll add a caveat; If the original 1600 Nomad fit you better and that's why you didn't upgrade after 2009 to the redesigned 1700's, DO AND I REPEAT DO NOT RIDE THE VICTORY. You'll be saying, "this is what I wanted my original Nomad to morph into!!!"

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by ponch

His incantation regarding victory bikes

You'll have to be more specific.

[Netnorske]

That pretty well sums it up....the XC-XCT is what you hoped the Nomad would become, but didn't. Like I said in my last post, anyone who has loved their 1500/1600 Nomads, will love the Vic's even more because it feels like a Nomad on steroids with the exception of the handlebars.

The handlebars, even with the 2" pullback, have a grip position that is a bit unnatural and seems to be a common complaint on the Vic forums. That is the last piece of the puzzle I am working on. I think I am going to have a custom set made that will change the grip angle rearward from 25 to 40 degrees....and downward from 15 to 25 degrees. There do not seem to be any aftermarket bars for a XC that accomplish that, so a custom set seems to be my best option. BR's Custom Bars out of New York can/will make any handlebar for any bike to your personal specs. Then it will REALLY feel like a beefed up Nomad!

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

You'll have to be more specific.

If you ride one you'll buy one.

[redjay]

I dont doubt a Victory Cross Country Tour is better than a 1600 Nomad (from what I have read on here) but after 5 hours on my Voyager yesterday I have no desire to spend another $15,000 to get a new Victory. The Voyager is much better in many ways than my 1600 Nomad was and is all the bike I need. Yes the Voyager is a little more cramped than the 1600 Nomad was but that is something that can be fixed for a lot less than $15,000.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by redjay

I dont doubt a Victory Cross Country Tour is better than a 1600 Nomad (from what I have read on here) but after 5 hours on my Voyager yesterday I have no desire to spend another $15,000 to get a new Victory. The Voyager is much better in many ways than my 1600 Nomad was and is all the bike I need. Yes the Voyager is a little more cramped than the 1600 Nomad was but that is something that can be fixed for a lot less than $15,000.

I thing the difference with new versus new is about $4K. Seems the XCT is going for around $23K and it depends on color, accessories and dealer convenience fee. Once the price of a bike gets over $20K, the competition changes. There's the Goldwing, K1600's, Victory XCT, Vision and the HD bikes. It seems to me that Victory is positioning itself differently than Kawasaki. One is a value proposition and the other is value at a competitive price point with the direct competition, which is HD. From an emotional point of view, Victory doesn't have what HD does, which is akin to religion. Instead it's more of a rational proposition, but not as much as buying a BMW is. Someone that want's a V-Twin is a different rider. So, the incantation of ride one, you'll buy one serves as a challenge. One, they are saying that their bikes are so good that you'll want one if you just try it, it's that good, appealing to a rider that wants something substantive. Two, they are being a little brash and bold, as the upstart in that market niche. From what I can tell, it's working.

Anyway, anyone willing to spend $23K on a bike should ride all of the bikes in that price range just to make sure. It is a lot of money, but a lot of times we get what we pay for. The only real problem with the Voyager is that it was built by the bean counters. Sometimes I think the bean counters need a one way ticket to hell with a lawyer under each arm.

[Monkeyman]

How tall are you, redjay? If you're short, the Voyager might well work for you. If you're tall, the Vic works better (ergonomically). I think the Vic just does things better than the Voyager. For example, the Voyager needs something to deal with heat (KACT?). Victory actually had to swap to a smaller oil cooler a few years back because the bikes were running too cool.

ponch --- I would have strongly considered a K1600 GTL if I could have dealt with the riding position. My knees (and big belly) just won't allow that. I haven't seen any good deals on those, either.

Speaking of deals, Victory usually offers some good deals on new, holdovers. I bought my '12 brand new (after the '13s came out) and got a free 4 year extended warranty (which I'll never use), $1000 in Vic accessories/apparel for buying within a month of demo days and $250 each in accessories and apparel. Some dealers will give you those rebates as cash off, others will make you get the stuff. There are also discounts for active duty/retired military and active duty/retired LEOs. If you qualified for all this (and could get the dealer to give you cash off), you could conceivably get a new $23k bike for around $17k. Pretty freakin' good deal if you could swing it. My Vision stickered for $21.5k. I paid $20k OTD. If I could have found a new '11, I could have got it OTD for less than $18k. Just food for thought.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

How tall are you, redjay? If you're short, the Voyager might well work for you. If you're tall, the Vic works better (ergonomically). I think the Vic just does things better than the Voyager. For example, the Voyager needs something to deal with heat (KACT?). Victory actually had to swap to a smaller oil cooler a few years back because the bikes were running too cool.

ponch --- I would have strongly considered a K1600 GTL if I could have dealt with the riding position. My knees (and big belly) just won't allow that. I haven't seen any good deals on those, either.

Speaking of deals, Victory usually offers some good deals on new, holdovers. I bought my '12 brand new (after the '13s came out) and got a free 4 year extended warranty (which I'll never use), $1000 in Vic accessories/apparel for buying within a month of demo days and $250 each in accessories and apparel. Some dealers will give you those rebates as cash off, others will make you get the stuff. There are also discounts for active duty/retired military and active duty/retired LEOs. If you qualified for all this (and could get the dealer to give you cash off), you could conceivably get a new $23k bike for around $17k. Pretty freakin' good deal if you could swing it. My Vision stickered for $21.5k. I paid $20k OTD. If I could have found a new '11, I could have got it OTD for less than $18k. Just food for thought.

I like the idea of the motor in the new K bikes, but the bar ergonomics are hard to change and very expensive (I don't like to lean forward) . The RT has a boxer engine, which is simpler, easier to work on and get to and has a track record. No, you won't find any deals on the K bikes as they sell every one they make pretty quickly. As far as the Victory goes, I don't qualify for any discount and I haven't seen leftovers. There's usually some leftovers with Kawasaki. Next year my bike will almost be paid off and may be I'll get a second ride at some point. We'll see. I like test riding them.

[blowndodge]

Originally Posted by Netnorske

That pretty well sums it up....the XC-XCT is what you hoped the Nomad would become, but didn't. Like I said in my last post, anyone who has loved their 1500/1600 Nomads, will love the Vic's even more because it feels like a Nomad on steroids with the exception of the handlebars.

The handlebars, even with the 2" pullback, have a grip position that is a bit unnatural and seems to be a common complaint on the Vic forums. That is the last piece of the puzzle I am working on. I think I am going to have a custom set made that will change the grip angle rearward from 25 to 40 degrees....and downward from 15 to 25 degrees. There do not seem to be any aftermarket bars for a XC that accomplish that, so a custom set seems to be my best option. BR's Custom Bars out of New York can/will make any handlebar for any bike to your personal specs. Then it will REALLY feel like a beefed up Nomad!

Thats because you have those scrawney T Rex arms !!

[ponch]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

Thats because you have those scrawney T Rex arms !!

Like this?

[Netnorske]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

Thats because you have those scrawney T Rex arms !!

Yes....and here is the answer to my prayers.....but I can't see shelling out what they are asking for these....! Click to zoom to see a couple other pics.....every adustment you could hope to make...! Check out the second of the three pics.

HeliBars
https://www.helibars.com/product/hor...lebars-victory

[fammdw]

I rode one (Victory Cross Country) and then went down the road and bought a Voyager.

I wasn't impressed with the XC. I thought the riding position was great, but the wind management was the worst I have ever seen and I mean worst than a naked bike.

The gravel and general crud from the road kicked up by cars in front of me peppered me like a shotgun blast. The transmission was as clunky if not clunkier than a Harley. The location of the rear brake peddle was ridiculous to the point that the first couple of times I went to stop I couldn't find the damn thing with my foot. The wind over the shorty windshield had my head looping around from the turbulence. I couldn't hear the stereo over 50 mph.

Even with all these issues I kept telling myself that I could fix it because I liked the looks of the bike. Then I got back from the test drive and spoke to the lunatic salesman.

This dealership in question advertises on TV and on the radio that they will not be undersold. They will match any price. I had located several bikes of the same make and model (2012 Red & Silver XC) just under $16,000.

At first the salesman told me that he couldn't match the lowest advertised price of $15,995. He showed me on his invoice sheet that the price was invoice minus the current rebate money they had going on the 2012's at the time. He eventually backed off that after talking to his manager and said they could do the price, but couldn't take my trade in. They had earlier quoted me at $5500 on trade for my 2006 Nomad.

When I asked why they couldn't take the trade-in, he said that he could, but if they took my trade, I would have to pay the full $21,000 retail price for the XC - $19,500 after the $1500 rebate. That was also before the filing fees and whatever else they add in.

I asked him if he understood that what he was suggesting was that I give him my Nomad for the equivalent of $2000 on the trade? He seemed oblivious to this and thought that his math made perfect sense. I thanked him and then went 20 miles down the road and bought a 2012 Voyager for $15,700 out the door and got $5800 on the trade-in for the Nomad. That's an out of pocket cost of $9900.

I know that several of my concerns about the XC would be addressed on the XCT, but they are at least $3000 more than the XC. If I were to go with my Victory salesman's math skills that would run me close to $11,000 more out the door than I paid for my Voyager. It just ain't that much better.

I did 3000 miles out to and around Tennessee this past fall on the VV and I'm getting ready to take off with a buddy in two weeks to do a ten day, 3500 mile trip through southern New Mexico / Arizona, up to the Grand Canyon, to Durango for a run up the million dollar highway and over to Taos, NM before returning home.

I must say that I've been pretty damn happy with my "crappy" Voyager. I rode her a couple hundred miles today and by God, I think I'm gonna ride the stinker again tomorrow!

[ponch]

And thats why it's always better to do a money transaction meaning, get financing before hand and sell the existing bike privately. At that point, it's all about OTD without any four square ben franklin assumptive close appeal to a higher authority BS magic sales techniques. Once there are trades and financing through the dealer, there's a lot of gray area that we don't see where they make up their points.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Netnorske

Yes....and here is the answer to my prayers.....but I can't see shelling out what they are asking for these....! Click to zoom to see a couple other pics.....every adustment you could hope to make...! Check out the second of the three pics.

HeliBars
https://www.helibars.com/product/hor...lebars-victory

How much more is it than custom bars?