Obamacare Passes

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by Carpathia

I was laughing at starting another inflammatory thread, not at climate change itself. Climate change is a very real, very serious problem.

in·flam·ma·to·ry   [in-flam-uh-tawr-ee, -tohr-ee] Show IPA
adjective
1.
tending to arouse anger, hostility, passion, etc.: inflammatory speeches.
2.
Pathology . of or caused by inflammation.

Synonyms
1. fiery, incendiary, provocative.

You have the definition correct... just not so sure you have the same view as others around here...

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by Carpathia

Things are collapsing economically, globally, even in countries that do not have universal health care. You are attempting to attribute one failure on something that isn't even related. Nice try though.

So, are you saying Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Greece (just to name a few) are not in trouble based on their entitlement programs?

Are you saying that the U.S. isn't in trouble with its entitlement programs?

Are you saying that other countries are not affected by the developed regions' problems with their entitlement programs?

I am listening... because I just have to hear this...

[coacha]

Originally Posted by Kawhead

Oh get you a beer and some pretzels. It's after eleven am. Whacha doin'? Cutting back?

I'm looking for the bow smiley.

I have been doing the following: washing dishes, cooking, cleaning, mowing the lawn, changing the fluids in the KawaTanker and checking the brake pads. Tamminator is out of town so I am now the MASTER OF MY DOMAIN...unless she somehow sees this and decides to B slap me back to reality.

Guess I'll run to the store and get some beer and pretzels so I can sit around in my underoos and keep reading this thread

[Carpathia]

Originally Posted by glwilson

You have the definition correct... just not so sure you have the same view as others around here...

The topics of discussion are still inflammatory, whether or not my opinion is shared or not.

But yes, I've figured out that my opinions on some topics are not popular here. I think if I'm going to continue to stick around here, I'm going to have to avoid topics that are not motorcycle related.

... And even motorcycle tires are probably on my "do not discuss" list.

[NRiderUSA]

Originally Posted by Carpathia

It means exactly what I thought it meant.

I'm not sure if you're making some sort of sarcastic comment that's lost in translation or what, but I think generally these are considered inflammatory topics.

Yep, my feeble attempt at humor. I was watching a show with my grandaughter and there was a guy in it that kept saying "Impossible" but he kept saying it and the stuff kept happening and one guy made a comment about his use of the word since it kept happening.

So I guess I will just bypass the attempt at levity and outright say.... if you think whats going on from and by this administration isnt inflammatory and deserves the publicity it begs for obviously by the reaction of most Americans from either side who do care....

Then my appoligies as well as my sympathy both are yours, first one for your being inflammed and second for your apathy on not wanting to hear about it.


ap·a·thy
   [ap-uh-thee]
noun, plural ap·a·thies.
1.
absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement.
2.
lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.

[Jgrazjgraz]

Says it all

[Carpathia]

Originally Posted by NRiderUSA

So I guess I will just bypass the attempt at levity and outright say.... if you think whats going on from and by this administration isnt inflammatory and deserves the publicity it begs for obviously by the reaction of most Americans from either side who do care....

Then my appoligies as well as my sympathy both are yours, first one for your being inflammed and second for your apathy on not wanting to hear about it.

Oh, I didn't quite get the humour. Perhaps next time.

Ultimately, I am apathetic on this issue. I'm not American. It's not my fight, for or against.

I'm not inflamed; I'm confused. I just don't understand why anyone would fight against universal health care at all. Even if you think there are too many "entitlements" (as someone said), I would abandon a lot of the other ones before I gave up health care. Even if you think taxes are too high (I think I heard this as well), I would elect to cut funding on other items first. Sooner or later, everyone needs medical care.

[Netnorske]

Since when do Democrats EVER cut funding...???

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by Carpathia

Oh, I didn't quite get the humour. Perhaps next time.

Ultimately, I am apathetic on this issue. I'm not American. It's not my fight, for or against.

I'm not inflamed; I'm confused. I just don't understand why anyone would fight against universal health care at all. Even if you think there are too many "entitlements" (as someone said), I would abandon a lot of the other ones before I gave up health care. Even if you think taxes are too high (I think I heard this as well), I would elect to cut funding on other items first. Sooner or later, everyone needs medical care.

Everyone needs food also, but I constantly hear from the bleeding-hearts about how many are starving in the U.S.; and world for that matter... and we all know people need food to live.

So... if a universal, "everybody gets it" healthcare program is needed... then next we'll have mandatory food-banks where everybody is going to buy their food. Nothing fancy, mind you... just the basic food-groups here. But if you are a citizen, you get your food for free there. (No ID's required to prove you are a legal citizen, of course)

Now, if you want to keep your grocery-store (you know, the one you currently go to), then you can keep it if you can afford to. You CAN go there; but they might not be in business anymore... or possibly sell the same food as they did -- because there will be far fewer shopping there... but you can still go there if you want.

Let's see... food... healthcare... water... I believe that just about covers it.

So everyone can have as many babies as you want and be assured everyone gets free food, water, healthcare. Heck we don't even ever have to worry if our society is productive or not... it will just simply "be there" for all to have... don't worry.

[Jgrazjgraz]

Unfortunately a lot of folks have lost sight of what made this country great in the first place. Individual drive and accomplishment. The sky is the limit. Now gov't sets the limits.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Jgrazjgraz

Unfortunately a lot of folks have lost sight of what made this country great in the first place. Individual drive and accomplishment. The sky is the limit. Now gov't sets the limits.

And when the government controls your healthcare, they basically own your body. Universal sounds great until you hit retirement age, when the actuarial tables go against you and you'll find they prefer that you are dead. The difference with insurance companies is that it's voluntary and you can bitch and moan and contest claims. I read an article where british nurses travel to the US to work in nursing homes in Florida during the winter and they were shocked and the procedures older people get in this country, like coronary bypasses. The comments were such that it doesn't happen in England. It's not what I want here.

[NRiderUSA]

I seem to remember hearing about a lot of people who live in the "socialized health care from birth to death" countries coming to America to get the treatments that arent available because of cost rationalizations or because the wait is tooooooo long even if they provide it in their countries.
Including the leaders of those countries... guessing quantity over quality proves itself out in those actions.

And all the people who couldnt afford to pay for their doctors visits whether by choice, citizen status or what ever.... will still not be able to for the same reasons, all this does is make it law that they will be covered... and everyone who was paying for it before is still going to be paying for it after.
All they have done is create another magic illusion of appearing to address a problem by creating a big bucket to put money into that will as it always has been.... become a slush fund for access to cash flow.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by NRiderUSA

I seem to remember hearing about a lot of people who live in the "socialized health care from birth to death" countries coming to America to get the treatments that arent available because of cost rationalizations or because the wait is tooooooo long even if they provide it in their countries.
Including the leaders of those countries... guessing quantity over quality proves itself out in those actions.

And all the people who couldnt afford to pay for their doctors visits whether by choice, citizen status or what ever.... will still not be able to for the same reasons, all this does is make it law that they will be covered... and everyone who was paying for it before is still going to be paying for it after.
All they have done is create another magic illusion of appearing to address a problem by creating a big bucket to put money into that will as it always has been.... become a slush fund for access to cash flow.

The governor of New Brunswick came to the US for heart surgery last year.

[Carpathia]

Originally Posted by glwilson

So... if a universal, "everybody gets it" healthcare program is needed... then next we'll have mandatory food-banks where everybody is going to buy their food. Nothing fancy, mind you... just the basic food-groups here. But if you are a citizen, you get your food for free there. (No ID's required to prove you are a legal citizen, of course)

First, you're making a jump. You're making an "all or nothing" statement, exaggerating the impact of a universal health care system, and how it will (magically, I assume) become a universal everything else system. That's not the case.

Second, I would expect that the United States already has a "food bank" program. Food stamps or something like that, right?

Originally Posted by glwilson

Let's see... food... healthcare... water... I believe that just about covers it.

So everyone can have as many babies as you want and be assured everyone gets free food, water, healthcare. Heck we don't even ever have to worry if our society is productive or not... it will just simply "be there" for all to have... don't worry.

So... Ensuring that everyone is fed and medically sound is... A bad idea?

Again, you're making a massive jump in logic here. There is much more to life than just food, water, and health care. There are still a million other non-optional and optional things for people to take care of on their own. They will still need jobs and to be productive.

[Carpathia]

Originally Posted by ponch

The governor of New Brunswick came to the US for heart surgery last year.

The title is "Premier" and he was from Newfoundland.

He did, correct. But to my knowledge, the terms of his trip were never disclosed publicly. (And shouldn't be - it's his personal medical situation, not a matter of public policy.)

While it may have been a matter of jumping the queue (where he would rather pay to get it done now), there were also a number of other possible reasons: The procedure may not be available in Canada - with a population of 10 times Canada, there are more hospitals, doctors, and specialized machinery in the United States. It might be something new. Another (conspiracy theorist) reason was that it was purely politically driven. We'll never know for sure.

Conversely, there are stories of Americans moving / marrying into Canada for the health care here. It's easy to find strange stories in either direction.

Regardless of the motivations of the Premier, if there is a problem with the Canadian system (and there are some), that doesn't mean it has to be a failing of the American one. You guys keep talking about "drive and accomplishment" and all that. If Americans truly have that drive, why not use it to build the best universal system in the world? There are many that have come before you. Learn from them and improve upon them all.