Please help with Wiring!

[Yellow Jacket]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a 5 pin relay has one pin that acts opposite of the usual trigger. Instead of actuating the relay when voltage is applied, it actuates the relay when voltage is removed. You could connect that pin to the high beam circuit. When the high beam is on, the voltage applied would turn the relay off, when you switch to low beam, the absence of voltage would turn the relay on. I believe that is pin 87b, which is in the center of a 5-pin relay,

The 5 pin relays of which I'm aware are a single-pole double throw or SPDT. This relay has a normally open contact and a normally closed contact. (The 4 pin relay only has the normally open contact and is called a single-pole single throw.) In the case of the SPDT relay it still has only one trigger pin. When the relay is not activated power is fed to the normally closed pin. When the relay is activated power is fed to the normally open pin. I'm sure you know this and maybe I don't understand what you are trying to say above but that doesn't make sense to me.

[Yellow Jacket]

Originally Posted by Creed

Yellow Jacket, can two trigger wires run to the same trigger pin of a standard relay? Then if I understand, the low beam trigger would always trigger the lightbar when headlights are on LOW beam, and the secondary trigger wire from the HIGH beam lead (thru an added switch) would then also trigger the relay whenever that added switch is ON -- meaning the relay is then HOT, regardless of whether your headlight switch is on LOW beam or HIGH beam. When the second switch is OFF, then the relay would only be triggered by the LOW beam circuit.

Or, as CJ suggests, should the secondary trigger wire be run to the 5th pin (87A?) on a 5-pin relay? I'm not sure I understand if that would allow the lightbar to run on both high and low.

Yes.

I'm not sure I understand what CJ was talking about. That's not my understanding of how a 5 pin (SPDT) relay works.

Refer to the drawing below and I will try to explain how you could do this.

Connections using standard 4 pin SPST relay:

1. Fused power from the battery is connected to pin 30.

2. Switched power from pin 87 (normally open pin) connects to the lightbar.

3. Pin 85 connects to ground.

4. Pin 86 has two triggering connections.

The upper trigger line comes from the high beam wire, passes through a switch and a diode and then connects to pin 86.

The lower trigger line comes from the low beam wire , passes though a diode and connects to pin 85.

When the hidden switch is in the off position the relay will be activated only when the low beam is on.

When the hidden switch is in the on positon the relay will be activated when either the low beam or the high beam is on.

The diodes must be used or when the hidden switch is on both your high and low beams will be on together due to feedback through the trigger circuits.

The diodes must be installed with the arrow pointing toward the relay in the circuit or they will block the current and the relay will not activate.

[cactusjack]

Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket

The 5 pin relays of which I'm aware are a single-pole double throw or SPDT. This relay has a normally open contact and a normally closed contact. (The 4 pin relay only has the normally open contact and is called a single-pole single throw.) In the case of the SPDT relay it still has only one trigger pin. When the relay is not activated power is fed to the normally closed pin. When the relay is activated power is fed to the normally open pin. I'm sure you know this and maybe I don't understand what you are trying to say above but that doesn't make sense to me.

Bob, I thought the 5th pin on a 5-pin relay worked the opposite of a 4-pin relay. In other words, when you apply power to the trigger pin on a 4-pin relay, it energizes the coil and closes the relay switch, completing the circuit and powering the driving lights.

My understanding was (and I did say "correct me if I'm wrong"), was that the 5th pin had power applied to it, the relay coil is NOT energized and the relay switch remains open. When power is not applied to the 5th pin, the coil is energized and the switch closes, thus powering the lights.

I have never used a relay in this manner, I just remember reading some engineering specs once. If I was incorrect, I apologize.

Edit: Wait a second - that 5th pin has nothing to do with the trigger, it opens and breaks the circuit when the relay is actuated, while the other output closes and completes the circuit. What was I thinking?

[cnc]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

It won't work if you place a switch inline with the trigger circuit to the relay. The way he is wiring the relay, the relay will be energized when no voltage is applied to the trigger. Hence, if the headlight is switched to the low beam position, the switch would have no effect on the relay. He would need to wire the switch inline with the (+) 12v supply to the relay.

Now this is getting confusing
I have re-read Creeds explanation of how he would wire it and unless I am having a senior moment, which is quite possible, It will work for the purpose that Creed first mentioned: Ability to disable the power to the driving lamps when the head light is switched to high beam for his state inspection.

Terminal 87 is not used.
Power flows from terminal 30 to terminal 87a (driving lights)when trigger wire has no voltage (terminal 86)
Apply voltage to trigger wire and power to 87a is interrupted sending it to 87
Thus using the high beam wire as the trigger:
Low beam = driving lights on
High beam = driving lights off
Which is what he wants for inspection

Put a switch in the trigger line and in the on position lights will function as above.
In the off position no power from the trigger wire so driving lights will be on all the time, high beam and low.

A separate switch would be necessity on the power line if he wished to shut off the lamps and run high or low beam only or to run them all the time his aux fuse panel needs a relay to cut power to it when the bike is not running.

[macmac]

You guys are making my head bleed... stop it, stop it now!

[cnc]

Originally Posted by macmac

You guys are making my head bleed... stop it, stop it now!

OK macmac, but stop banging your head against the computer screen.

[macmac]

if I do will the pain stop?

[cnc]

logic tells me so.