ABS brakes vs. No ABS brakes

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by HwyRider

Because you get the most stopping power from the front brake is why you put more pressure on the rear. If you slam on the front brake the rear end will come around.

Sorry but no. A sliding tire will ALWAYS lead.

My Vision is the first bike I've had with ABS. It's already saved my butt a few times. I doubt I'll own another bike withOUT it. In my case, I didn't have a choice. All new Visions have ABS, standard. I wanted a Vision, I got ABS.

Try panic braking a big bike going around a curve on wet leaves without ABS. Hope you enjoy the ditch. Do it with ABS and you can stand on the brakes and............slow down. Totally uneventful, just the way it's supposed to be.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Top Cat

I don't know Dan, those two sentences seem to me to contradict each other.
How can a professional rider making a perfect stop, stop a motorcycle in a slightly shorter distance than occurs with ABS when in your second example you say a rider making a perfect stop will stop a bike with ABS and one without ABS in exactly the same distance, because the ABS will never kick in.

The key thing though is that no one here is a professional rider and braking on street isn't under the ideal conditions of testing. A better test would be the same bike with ABS turned off, if possible or the same model, one with and one without ABS.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by glwilson

I am not sure where he came up with hard brake on the rear.

Any advanced course will tell you to brake both at the same time with progressive braking on the front to stop. For those that do not believe me... just look it up. No where does it say to "hard" brake on the rear -- ever. Sorry but their statement is dead wrong...

It also depends if the brakes are linked or not and if they are linked, how they are linked. Bikes that are partially linked, the front brake actuates the front and rear, the rear just the rear. There is no advantage to braking as on a bike with other types of brakes.

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by ponch

It also depends if the brakes are linked or not and if they are linked, how they are linked. Bikes that are partially linked, the front brake actuates the front and rear, the rear just the rear. There is no advantage to braking as on a bike with other types of brakes.

Wasn't referring to ABS brakes... linked or not. I was referring to bikes with regular, non-ABS brakes.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by glwilson

Wasn't referring to ABS brakes... linked or not. I was referring to regular brakes.

I would think that with non-linked and fully linked ABS brakes that both front and rear brakes would have to be applied together to stop optimally.

[HwyRider]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Sorry but no. A sliding tire will ALWAYS lead.

My Vision is the first bike I've had with ABS. It's already saved my butt a few times. I doubt I'll own another bike withOUT it. In my case, I didn't have a choice. All new Visions have ABS, standard. I wanted a Vision, I got ABS.

Try panic braking a big bike going around a curve on wet leaves without ABS. Hope you enjoy the ditch. Do it with ABS and you can stand on the brakes and............slow down. Totally uneventful, just the way it's supposed to be.

This was for an unlinked system on a highway. Did it 3 times this year.

[HwyRider]

Originally Posted by glwilson

I am not sure where he came up with hard brake on the rear.

Any advanced course will tell you to brake both at the same time with progressive braking on the front to stop. For those that do not believe me... just look it up. No where does it say to "hard" brake on the rear -- ever. Sorry but their statement is dead wrong...

I was talking simultaneously.

[Yellow Jacket]

I would suggest that everyone read these articles on braking:

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=030&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=029&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=064&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=230&Set=

http://www.msgroup.org/Articles.aspx?Cat=2 (This will give you the entire list of braking tips on the Motorcycle Safety Group website.)

I would strongly encourage that some time be spent on that site.

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by HwyRider

I was talking simultaneously.

Got it... Wondered why you would have said that...

[dank]

Originally Posted by Top Cat

I don't know Dan, those two sentences seem to me to contradict each other.
How can a professional rider making a perfect stop, stop a motorcycle in a slightly shorter distance than occurs with ABS when in your second example you say a rider making a perfect stop will stop a bike with ABS and one without ABS in exactly the same distance, because the ABS will never kick in.

Tim, no contradiction. A perfect stop that goes right up to but does not exceed maximum tire friction for both tires is possible, unlikely but possible, and in that case it doesn't matter if it is an ABS equipped bike or non-ABS bike because the ABS won't kick in. Both bikes wold stop in the same optimally short distance. The concept of the professional rider beating ABS is speaking of a "perfect" stop versus over braking and letting ABS control the brakes, in which case the pulsing does give you silghtly less effeiciency than a perfect stop that never skids a tire and always uses the absolute highest possible force on the brakes. so when those tests say a non-abs can beat and ABS bike, they are meaning a prefect stop on the one versus engaging the ABS on the other. They ignore the situation where the ABS bike is perfectly managed and also would stop in the optimal distance. Whether or not you have ABS on the bike makes no difference in braking distance unless you over brake, and in that case it helps.

[highwayman2011]

After having a bike with ABS I like it on a bike, not so much on my car.

[HeyJoe]

When I was in the market for a new Vaquero, ABS was included. I did a little research on it and was pretty impressed with the technology. As it happened, I found a 2012 Vaquero without ABS but it was not a hard decision to go with the 2012. Maybe I'm a little old school but I don't put all my trust in technology, and I guess it helps that I do an experienced rider course every spring in all kinds of road conditions so the tipping point in going with non-ABS was my confidence and trust in my own experience and riding skills.

[Top Cat]

Originally Posted by HeyJoe

Maybe I'm a little old school but I don't put all my trust in technology, the tipping point in going with non-ABS was my confidence and trust in my own experience and riding skills.

I couldn't have said it better.

[Texas nomad]

Stopping a large cruiser like a Vulcan Nomad at 65mph is something you must experience to believe! As a former police motor officer we go through extensive slow cone and speed work during school. I have been instructed by both IPTM and Northwest certified instructors....the guidance is always in emergency braking your first brake is compression braking! Roll off the throttle( dump it), down shift quickly to first gear as you pull in the clutch, as you apply firm pressure to. The front brake, while maintaining a firm position. On the rear brake. Folks, if you use more than is necessary on the rear brake, you'll find yourself in rear wheel lock. This is NOT where you want to be!! You can truly stop this vulcan fast using this technique. I do it all the time in my ride home (when I know traffic is clear behind and in front of me). I make myself conduct sessions of emergency braking at various times just to make sure I stay fresh with my skills. Riding like a motor cop can be done if you take the time to practice! Find a fairly level parking lot and practice e braking at speeds ranging from 20-40 mph... You will come out of these exercises a much stronger rider!

[minst7877]

Locking up a back brake will turn into a very bad day very quickly. And I do know this from experience and will probably involve much pain.

DC