HELP - Darkside Wobble

[rhodyrider401]

MAS and Clayton, when you stated your speeds (85&90), were you referring to actual speed, or what is indicated on the inaccurate speedometer?
I am not a speed demon, but I won't be happy unless I can go 85 (actual speed), when needed.

[ringadingh]

Originally Posted by Clayton

I just mounted the same tire 2 weeks ago and so far I love it. I have been up to 85 and no wobble what so ever.
I popped in about 3-1/2 ounces of beads.
I do not have a fairing but my sweet spot was 40 pounds of pressure on that tire.

You should ride through a wet spot in the driveway, and check your contact area on the rear tire. 40lbs may be a little high, and youll wear out the centre of the tire prematuraly.

[blowndodge]

don't for to check the front end bearing tightness. It's a pain but worth it to know it's well lubed and tight..

[macmac]

Originally Posted by rhodyrider401

Thanks again Mac.

I am going to replace the front bearings, and the front tire, hopefully have it blanced (and probably add dynabeads since I have an extra 2 oz pack).

You might have missed it, but the first thing I did was remove the old rear wheel weights and add 3oz of dynabeads, and it didn't really help, or at least it wasn't noticeable. Problem now is that I can't manually check the wheel for blance now that the beads ar in it.

I will check the front end again, but I am pretty sure there is no slop in the head/neck. It turn from stop to stop very smoothly and I do not think there is any front to back play. When you say to grab the wheel 180 apart and twist and pull, should I be holding the top and bottom of the wheel, OR the front and back?

Regarding the rear end. Supposes there is more left to right play than there is supposed to be, how is that fixed? I understand the need to grease the swing arm, etc., but does performing that service fix the amount of movement back there? What am I missing?

Finally, I am not questioning your wisdom here, you are a wealth of knowledge, but I just can't wrap my head around why this wobble/oecilation would only become so apparent after mounitn the CT (assuming it is blanced properly by the dynabeads). I can not help but think that I I just put a new (or even the old) MC tire on, the problem would be gone. Thoughts?

Take MAS very seriously, he is a very good head.
Claytons bike is a 1600 like mine and we share a wider rear wheel, so the SP 5000 fits better.

The swing arm seals are used as thrust washers and make for poor thrust washers. These wear on the back of the seals (incorrectly) and as they wear the gap grows larger and larger. No one yet has come up with a really good fix.

The wear comes from plain riding, and there is no way to stop the back of the seals from wearing. With book spec service at each 7,500 miles new seals are the fix for better or worse that's it.

The 1600 book for the very same exact parts has a 15,000 mile service. That's BS. The Industry std for servicing bearings is 8,000 miles, and any old tech knows that.

It is possible that some of this wobble is from that U joint. The only way to tell if the U joint is good or not is to have it in your hand. These joints didn't get greased properly on about 1/2 of all shaft driven Nomads. The result is a early death. My 01 1500 stolen now had a bad U joint at under 21,000 miles. This was due to only 2 ends of the U joint getting grease at the factory not all 4 ends of the cross spicer joint.

There is no zerk, and even if there was it would be pointless to pump grease into a joint that has this condition. The 2 dry ends would simply be air bound with their caps and plastic clips in place. The flaw came from a burr on the yokes orginally.

The drive shaft is about that same as in a car and the u joint is too.

If you have a bad U Joint stiff in one plane of motion it will raise bloddy hell with the handing of the bike, and will smash parts of the drive line, forcing the bevel gear and it's bearing to heat up and fail, and the same for the rear end seals sets and bearing on the shaft line in the ring and pinion.

I do admitt to ranting about this, but the other end of the deal is a rider who ignors this for long enough can suffer a rear wheel lock up. That will smash a lot more parts, but probably won't matter to the rider, since it is likey he will be toast pushing up daiseys.


Ft wheel checks are 180 degrees in line with the forks or about top and bottom to wiggle the tire except the fender is in the way.

The idea is to isolate all other possible motion out of the equation. If there were no ft fender at all I would say reach thry the forks for the top grab, and the bottom grab 180 out from there. Getting as close to that as yu can is what to do.

I wouldn't install a new set of wheel bearings unless i found a flaw. I don't spend for parts that are still working well.

Nope you can't check the rear for ballance any more.

I am more than the local typo King.. I am dyslexic too. Everyone here has excused me for my lack of articulatons, funny typos , and macism's. I tawk bassakwards half the time.

It's something you must deal with if I can be of any service.

Read MAS again on the CT thing, He is correct. Something else is wrong.

I have 15,000 miles on a SP 5000 myself. Lots of guys use that tire, and have no wobbles.

Nomads all wobble slowing down at under 45 MPH with NO HANDS on the BARS. Don't do that.

[blowndodge]

Mines never done thatat low speeds Mac. But I do have the front end bearings a little on the tight side. Even with my truck tire I can set the throttle lock at 75 and take my hands off the bars and just steer the thing with my feet pressing the floorboards. I don't make this a practice!!

[rhodyrider401]

Mac, thanks again for the detailed post, i really appreciate it. No worries aout typos, I couldn't care less.
The goal right now is to change the front tire (replace the brake pads while I'm in there) and change the front bearings (as I have suspected snce I got the bike that they are on the way out). Hoping this cures a good part of the wobble, at least enough to get me through the season. Over the winter (or maybe sooner if we get another week of rain) I plan to do the rearend maintenance that you suggest.
Thanks again to all....and keep the ideas coming if you got em.

[macmac]

BD, Every so often I let go with both hands for a zipper or maybe to adjust something else which takes 2 hands. Generally I am in a too high of a gear to slow much, but with out the throttle locked, I slow anyway. Doing that the Nomad gets a little wiggle, and if I don't have a lid on I usually get a pain in the back of my head, once Madame understands no hands are on the bars

I personally tend to notice this under 35 MPH, and the 45 figure was ingeneral from hearing around.

At 75 I pretty much have both hands glued to the bars. I never can tell when ol mossey horns plans to walk into the road anymore, than ol' mossey horns knows itself. Mossey's don't know a whole heck of a lot.

.................................................. .................................................. ..............
rhody, Yeah I got another idea on How To spend your money

I always like spending other peoples dimes too!

At the miles you have it's time to check the cam chain tensioners, and get Chucksters cam chain extenders. It's safe bet you can just order up a set, with out looking at the amount left on the tensioners, and once you have these parts in hand, install them.

At that amount of miles I am sure there are less than just 3 or 4 teeth if that, left on rods.

This will get you started on the understanding.
http://www.gadgetjq.com/cc_tensioner.htm
The part about cutting off the oem thrust washer, I totally disagree with. Do NOT use any cutting tools period. There is no good reason why you must either. A hack saw is hard to manipulate to cut this off, and a whizz wheel will make grit you can't wash off in 1,000 years.

Besides the part is not pressed on hard in the first place. You simply chuck up the washer end in a vise, and with a brass punch lightly tap the rod out of the unit all easy like and catch the unit on a cleaner rag. This method is far faster and far cleaner too. It leaves you with a pair of nice steel earrings as well

[MAS Tequila]

Originally Posted by rhodyrider401

MAS and Clayton, when you stated your speeds (85&90), were you referring to actual speed, or what is indicated on the inaccurate speedometer?
I am not a speed demon, but I won't be happy unless I can go 85 (actual speed), when needed.

Mine was pretty close to actual. There used to be one of those radar 'you speed is' signs close by. I could go through at 45 indicated and it would say 44 under that it was right on. That was with the 185/75/16 Conti Vanco. The same size BD is running.

MT

[rhodyrider401]

New Metzeler front tire, balanced at the shop and I threw in 2oz of dyna beads for good measure, and the #!@*#% wobble is still there at anything over 70mph (actual). Not a HUGE deal, except I need to be able to go 80 on occasion AND at I 65-70 I feel like if I have to make any quick maneuver, I am going to eat it!
Shop said the bearings looked/felt fine.
I guess I'll keep going down the list (from quick/easy to more difficult) until I find it. Going to check the shock bushings next. Then probably change the fork oil. Then service the rearend and check the u joint........OR I might just throw a new MT on and call it a day (and do the needed maintenane stuff over the winter).

Before I go nuts, should I play with tire pressure? Can that really be it? Rear is at 40 now, front was at 37.

[ringadingh]

Id bump the front up to 40-42 lbs.
And I assume your wobble is only there upon deacceleration, thats seems to be the common factor.

[macmac]

I agree with Ring, But try dropping that rear to 36 psi. At 40 and with a new tire it can get dicey. When I first mounted the SP 5000, i tried 40 psi amd thought it was gonna kill me going slow on the 1/2 mile long dirt drive way. No sooner did I get to pavement I dropped psi to 28. This is in a 1600 with a wider wheel.

That 28 made the bike feel like it was glued to the road, but I found a wobble slowing down hard from an indicated 90 just horsin around playin catch the traffic. I got that wobble twice and then set psi in 0.5 pound increments to end at 36 rear and 42 Ft.

A new tire needs around 500 miles to break in too, so you better make sure yer rear end parts stay in the rear end. Other wise you'll end like me, going about bassackwards

Please answer this: Less than the speed that causes the wobbles how does the bike handle then?

[rhodyrider401]

Aside from the high speed wobble, the bike handles great. I've been riding 15 years and really don't feel much difference at all, not even going slow. Braking is awesome! This is my first bike with rear disc brakes and with a mt I would often lock them accidentally...not so with the meaty ct.
I'll play with the psi's and see what happens.
Oh yea, wobble goes away when I slow done and comes on as I accelerate past 68ish.

[macmac]

Where do you feel th wobble first? Seat of the pants or on the bars?

[dougster]

I have to ask. Did you check to see if the tire guy mounted the CT the right direction? (I don't know if there IS a right direction for that particular tire, but I had to ask.)

[rhodyrider401]

Mac, I think it's in the seat. When it happens, is just seems like the whole bike is doing a very tight slalom course.

Car tire is directional, and it is mounted in the right direction.

Just saw a Metzeler ME880 (77) rw\ear tire that would match my new front tire perfect for under $140 shipped! hmmmmmmmm. Any idea if I can just slap a shipping label on a naked tire? Would I have to box it??