Went on an unscheduled group ride

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by ponch

Someone that can ride will give sportbike riders fits in the twisties with a RT. I've seen it. That flat torque curve makes the bike very tractable. I don't have much trouble getting to the pegs. Just the other day I was making a left turn in a two lane left turn and the light changed as I was coming through. A guy in S1000RR was to my right and he cranked over and cut the turn tight, so I had to also. I was on my left peg and could have touched the ground with my hand if I wanted. The new RT is better than mine. The thing is, guys that call a RT porky are riding 400lb bikes. The thing is, the RT can do it all. Tour, hit the curves, stop well, go well, handle well. It's what the Germans do best and that's make a well designed bike that does everything well. The downsides is that if you don't do the maintenance yourself, it can be pricey depending on the bike. The other thing is some models have nagging problems that take a few years to filter out. I don't think I'd buy a first year model BMW, especially a K1600. The boxers are better as is the F800 series, but the boxers are the easiest to maintain. Just take one for a ride. BMW is very good about demo rides.

They were calling the K1200LT porky, not the R1200RT.

If, by "maintenance", you mean oil changes and general services, that's no problem taking care of by myself. If "maintenance" means replacing a clutch, well....I'm not sure I have the experience to do it and not f*** it up.

Good to know BMW is good about demo rides. I figured with BMW being a "well heeled" brand (even if their prices are in line with other similar bikes), they would give test rides just like a Bentley dealer. If I didn't drive to the dealer wearing a $1000 suit in a Cadillac, they wouldn't even talk to me. Victory has one of the best demo programs but even they don't give you more than about 15 miles. The local Harley dealer gives you 2 miles (literally). Not sure what they expect you to evaluate in 2 miles.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

They were calling the K1200LT porky, not the R1200RT.

If, by "maintenance", you mean oil changes and general services, that's no problem taking care of by myself. If "maintenance" means replacing a clutch, well....I'm not sure I have the experience to do it and not f*** it up.

Good to know BMW is good about demo rides. I figured with BMW being a "well heeled" brand (even if their prices are in line with other similar bikes), they would give test rides just like a Bentley dealer. If I didn't drive to the dealer wearing a $1000 suit in a Cadillac, they wouldn't even talk to me. Victory has one of the best demo programs but even they don't give you more than about 15 miles. The local Harley dealer gives you 2 miles (literally). Not sure what they expect you to evaluate in 2 miles.

Oil changes, final drive fluid changes, air filter, spark plugs, valve adjustments and brake fluid flushes. On older bikes like mine, transmission fluid changes.

The dealer I bought my BMW from sells BMW, Victory, Yamaha and Honda. I test rode a Vision first. After I signed the papers, they gave me the keys and said have fun. Next was the Kawasaki dealer. Signed my life away and they gave me a 5 mile loop I ignored a bit. The HD dealer had me sign my life away and I had to follow the salesman for a 4 mile ride. If I wanted more I had to rent the bike. I went back to the first dealer and test rode the BMW. Tossed the keys and said have fun. I rode it enough I had to put gas in it. That was it. I think he wanted to sell me the Vision and I could have gotten a sweet deal on a 2010, but I went with the beemer. Most BMW dealers have demo bikes. It's their thing and they believe the bike will sell itself. If you lived further west, I'd recommend Countryside BMW outside of Chicago or Gina's in Iowa City. I don't know of the BMW dealer in Indy.

[Monkeyman]

The BMW dealer in Indy is Falcones. Oddly enough, they also sell Victorys. I've heard mixed reviews about them but nothing BMW specific since I never had any intention of riding one. The local Victory dealer (where I bought my current bike) said they try to limit their test rides as they're only allowed to put 600 miles on their "demo bikes". Odd as I've seen plenty of new demo bikes with 3-4k miles on them. I might call them Monday and see what their policy is. The first part of next week is supposed to be beautiful and, although riding downtown Indy isn't my first choice, that's where they are and it might be worth the ride to rest ride the R1200RT.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

The BMW dealer in Indy is Falcones. Oddly enough, they also sell Victorys. I've heard mixed reviews about them but nothing BMW specific since I never had any intention of riding one. The local Victory dealer (where I bought my current bike) said they try to limit their test rides as they're only allowed to put 600 miles on their "demo bikes". Odd as I've seen plenty of new demo bikes with 3-4k miles on them. I might call them Monday and see what their policy is. The first part of next week is supposed to be beautiful and, although riding downtown Indy isn't my first choice, that's where they are and it might be worth the ride to rest ride the R1200RT.

That would be their limitation, not anything BMWNA would require.


Here's a video on the general subject of demo rides:

[Monkeyman]

Interesting. I sent Falcones an email via the form on BMWs site regarding a test ride. I'll see if they respond.

[Monkeyman]

Falcones still hasn't responded. I'm guessing they won't. If someone wanted to buy my $14k motorcycle, I'd respond in about 30 seconds. You'd think they would, too. The next nearest BMW dealer is about 120 miles away so that probably won't be a trip I'll make this year. I've seen some '07s and '09s for sale online for cheap (less than $5k). What's the difference between the new ones and the slightly older ones? Do they all have stereos? What about ABS?

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Falcones still hasn't responded. I'm guessing they won't. If someone wanted to buy my $14k motorcycle, I'd respond in about 30 seconds. You'd think they would, too. The next nearest BMW dealer is about 120 miles away so that probably won't be a trip I'll make this year. I've seen some '07s and '09s for sale online for cheap (less than $5k). What's the difference between the new ones and the slightly older ones? Do they all have stereos? What about ABS?

If you do a dealer search on BMWs website, you can setup a test ride there. There's a link for it. You could call as well.

As far as 07s and 09s, it depends on the model. If they are less than 5000, they must be very high mileage hacks. Even my 09 is worth 9-10K for sure. ABS has been standard on all BMWs since 07 or 08 and no, not all have stereos, but the 2010 and up RTs tend to have bluetooth audio. It depends how the bike was ordered. Did I say that? Yes, you can order a BMW bike how you like it if you want.

[Monkeyman]

What would you consider "high mileage"? The few I've seen in the $5k range have had close to 50k miles. One (and I can't remember where), had less than 15k for something like $6k.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

What would you consider "high mileage"? The few I've seen in the $5k range have had close to 50k miles. One (and I can't remember where), had less than 15k for something like $6k.

I doubt they were 2007-09 R1200RTs. May be they were ex-police bikes? By high mileage I mean 100K+.

http://www.goaz.com/showcaseproductl...showrooms=1582

http://www.victorybmw.com/default.as...&make=bmw&d=on

More than 5-6k.

Not all BMW models warrant the same value. I'd have to know what model, year and mileage to make an apples to apples comparison. There's a lot of diversity with BMWs. Singles, parallel twins, inline 4s that are transverse or longitudinal, inline 6s and boxer twins. Most are liquid cooled, some are air oil. The 2014/2015 R1200RT is the cats ass. I am afraid to test ride as I might get ideas.

[Monkeyman]

I know the new ones are where it's at but then I'd be at $20k. I can't afford the remainder of my $15k note. I sure couldn't swing $20k+. You talk about the '07-'09s. Is there something special about them?

I just did a quick check of eBay (cuz they're usually pretty good for window shopping). In the completed listings, I found an '05 with 20k miles for $7k, an '06 with 25k miles for less than $6k, another '06 with 11k miles for under $8k and an '09 with 25k miles for $9.5k. It does look like $10k would buy a fairly new(ish) one ('09-'11) in good condition with low mileage.

BTW, I sent the email from the BMW site. Still no result as of today. If I was a dealership wanting to sell a relatively exclusive, $20k+ bike, I'd answer the email/request in about 30 seconds. I might give them a call when I get up this afternoon (already past my bedtime).

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

I know the new ones are where it's at but then I'd be at $20k. I can't afford the remainder of my $15k note. I sure couldn't swing $20k+. You talk about the '07-'09s. Is there something special about them?

I just did a quick check of eBay (cuz they're usually pretty good for window shopping). In the completed listings, I found an '05 with 20k miles for $7k, an '06 with 25k miles for less than $6k, another '06 with 11k miles for under $8k and an '09 with 25k miles for $9.5k. It does look like $10k would buy a fairly new(ish) one ('09-'11) in good condition with low mileage.

BTW, I sent the email from the BMW site. Still no result as of today. If I was a dealership wanting to sell a relatively exclusive, $20k+ bike, I'd answer the email/request in about 30 seconds. I might give them a call when I get up this afternoon (already past my bedtime).

You mentioned 07-09 in an earlier post. If you want to look at RTs, you should look at 08 and later, IMO. There are pros and cons to hexheads (05-09) and camheads (10-13). The switch gear on the camheads isn't as good sometimes fail, meaning signal/cruise control/starter switch etc. The newer bikes have a float in the tank, the earlier bikes a fuel strip that is prone to failure, but BMW has warrantied them for 12 years from original purchase. The earlier bikes have threaded adjusters for the valves, the newer ones have shims. The shims hold their adjustment better, but both are easy to do.

My advice, if you really are interested, is to get the newest bike you can afford. The more mature a model, the more likely any issues are worked out and the 05-06 have power brakes that have a more involved service and if they haven't been, more likely to have problems. The 05-06 are more likely to have final drive issues too, YMMV. Lastly, the camheads have a little more torque, same HP. That's always a plus.

Oh yeah, I did a little research and Falcone has a good rep. I didn't find any negative comments.

[Monkeyman]

You sure know alot about the BMWs. I've heard mixed reviews about Falcones (from the various Victory forums). I got up too late today to call them but will tomorrow.

Power brakes on a motorcycle?? That's awesome! Obviously, I have no idea how they work but I would imagine there require more servicing. I guess more to go wrong if they fail (and who wants brakes to fail?). Of course, if they've been serviced (always a plus if an owner/seller has all service records), maybe they're the thing to have. On the other hand, if BMW doesn't have power brakes any more, there's probably a reason for that.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

You sure know alot about the BMWs. I've heard mixed reviews about Falcones (from the various Victory forums). I got up too late today to call them but will tomorrow.

Power brakes on a motorcycle?? That's awesome! Obviously, I have no idea how they work but I would imagine there require more servicing. I guess more to go wrong if they fail (and who wants brakes to fail?). Of course, if they've been serviced (always a plus if an owner/seller has all service records), maybe they're the thing to have. On the other hand, if BMW doesn't have power brakes any more, there's probably a reason for that.

I think part of the problem is losing the power when you lose power, kind of like a car. The non "whizzy" brakes work well enough though. BMW tends to make changes that are improvements and corrections over time. It's usually a good bet to buy a few years in on a model.

Yeah, I am a forum freak. I absorb as much info as possible on the BMW forums I peruse.

[Monkeyman]

RE: forum freak. I do the same, I guess. (Too bad I have a hard time retaining it for very long. I call it FGS or Forrest Gump Syndrome.)

I finally got a reply from Falcones about the test ride. Standard stuff (motorcycle endorsement, riding gear, sign waiver, etc) then there's the line about a 5 mile test ride. I don't know what they think anybody can evaluate in 5 miles. That's 2.5 miles out and 2.5 miles back. I can't even get out of Indianapolis in 2.5 miles. I'm not even going to waste my time riding to Indy to check one out. If I happen to see one for sale around here (which is unlikely as this is Harley country), I'll see if I can test ride that. If I get a wild hair up my butt next summer, maybe I'll drive to the next nearest dealer (about 120 miles away) and see what they can do for me. Most Victory dealers ask that you don't exceed more than 20 or 30 miles. During Vic demo events, the "test loop" is 8-12 miles and if you really want, you can take it out over and over, ride farther, etc. Victory 1, BMW 0.

I'm done complaining. It is what it is. I appreciate the info.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

RE: forum freak. I do the same, I guess. (Too bad I have a hard time retaining it for very long. I call it FGS or Forrest Gump Syndrome.)

I finally got a reply from Falcones about the test ride. Standard stuff (motorcycle endorsement, riding gear, sign waiver, etc) then there's the line about a 5 mile test ride. I don't know what they think anybody can evaluate in 5 miles. That's 2.5 miles out and 2.5 miles back. I can't even get out of Indianapolis in 2.5 miles. I'm not even going to waste my time riding to Indy to check one out. If I happen to see one for sale around here (which is unlikely as this is Harley country), I'll see if I can test ride that. If I get a wild hair up my butt next summer, maybe I'll drive to the next nearest dealer (about 120 miles away) and see what they can do for me. Most Victory dealers ask that you don't exceed more than 20 or 30 miles. During Vic demo events, the "test loop" is 8-12 miles and if you really want, you can take it out over and over, ride farther, etc. Victory 1, BMW 0.

I'm done complaining. It is what it is. I appreciate the info.

A Kawasaki dealer tried that with me. I went further. F em. HD was worse. I had to follow the salesman on a 4 mile ride. I think it depends on the dealer.