Gear oil leak.

[macmac]

Scott I do say or always mean to say place a 2x4 flat side down under the side stand.

The bike still leans over, and so holds some what less that 6.2 oz of oil....

I do not mean stack up 2x4's till the bike is dead vertical.

If the bike is leaning over either on the stand and or a bit higher up but not dead straight it can't hold too much oil...

It was made to hold that much oil but then it is the wrong amount. No dealer tech is going to know that because they will never find out.

The book is wrong, while the system can and will hiold that much. If and when it does it will start to leak like so many have.

probably 5.8 oz is about right, with error space to maybe 6.0... Heated the level rises up in there anyway, and for the size area it will rise alot.

I bet if you put in a measured 5.8 oz and went and rode to when you needed to refill apx 170 miles or so, all non stop, and yanked the plug with the bike dead up straight oil would come gushing out the filler hole so long as the oil was hot.

I bet that oil if we could see it would be about 1/2" deeper hot. A guess says that much deeper is where the problem begins. The seal is submereged at times like that, and then a little weep begins, and finally oil is dripping out at the top end of the drive shaft.

So far my 06 isn't leaking and my 01 didn't so far as I know, but I was already tipped off, and getting readu for that ride, I made sure...

I recall doing that because I needed a tool and what I came up with was 2 tokens from North American Hunting Club. One with a Elk and the other a Puma. I gave one to Cadd, and lost the other on the bike when it was stolen.

[macmac]

A bit more....

Gear oil is sticky stuff, A high viscosity, a pretty dense oil. Not only heated will it expand, but it will stay sticky.

A guess says the area filled is apx 3.5 inches high with a cold so called book level in the case. I might be off a little about how hign, but it doesn't matter really.

What does matter is that the ring gear is in contact with about 1.5 inches of that oil. That oil get slung around in there all over the place and will drain back down, and so a high level isn't all that important.

What bugs me most is that this pitance of oil after it has slung up the drive shaft is that no one can know how much is lost as it isn't going to drain back thru the seal the other way, and then no one can guess what if any oil is left in there.

The gears will mash and slice the molecules of the oil to bits, and cut the life of the lubrication by a lot more than we can expect to realize in 24,000 miles.

Each 3,000 to 3,500 mine gets changed out for new, and so far every time there has been metals in the gear oil. Not good.

I know that oil didn't go in there any other way than golden, and it comes out black, which means it got hot, and the black is metalic, which means steel, and other trace metals as a sheen.

The oil is still ok at 3,500, but I won't push it to any 24,000 miles.

A lower level with in reason is plenty enuff, when the seals can be compromised so easily.

The job for me wouldn't be hard, but I don't need to fix my stuff, I prefer to maintain it.

If and when I do I will be emery clothing the shafts where the seal rides too... Moly grease the inner seal groove and stuff it back in... I wouldn't re-use a seal of this type on a bet, unless none could be had. Probably the number would cross referance to another seal anyway.

[ringadingh]

Its a stock seal at the bearing supplier, they're about $8.00 ea.

[AlabamaNomadRider]

Guess I had better go drain a little out of mine. I filled it on the vertical. I have had no problems yet. I hope I am ok. I only have 2550 on my '08. I would certainly hate to have to replace seals.

[Cajunrider]

Originally Posted by PatrickM

Was 150 miles into my weekend ride when I stopped for gas and noticed oil dripping from the boot at the front of the drive shaft, it turned out to be gear oil, but I don't know how it could be leaking from the front of the shaft, I thought all the gear oil was in the gear box at the rear wheel. Any thoughts?

Patrick,

The same symptoms started with my '07 in Custer. I have changed my gear oil 3 times in 11,000 miles. Each time, I rode a couple of miles to warm up the oil, drained it on the sidestand and filled it with the sidestand on one 2x4 laid flat. After returning home from the rally in Custer, I brought my bike to the dealership and they changed the pinion seal, o-rings, and a small coupling next to the pinion seal. I asked them if they fill it on the sidestand or straight up. They told me they fill it with the bike straight up vertical. I asked them about drowning the seal from overfilling it and their response was that the gearcase was designed to be filled straight up and level in order to satisfy the required amount of gear oil. All of the work was covered by warranty. They filled the gearcase with the bike straight up and I left it that way. I will leave it as is for the next 7,000 miles before I change the oil again. This will either prove them wrong, right, or lucky. If it begins leaking again, they will get it back and change the seal again on their dime. My first seal failed with the gearcase filled each time on the sidestand and a 2x4. I don't know why it failed and probably never will. Next time I replace the oil I will do it on the sidestand and not straight up as they do. I have 6 years of warranty so that could cover quite a few seals if they only last a little over a year like the original did. I slide my index finger under the rubber boot each time before I ride and I haven't found the slightest bit of oil yet. When I do, they will change the seal again. I suggest taking care of it ASAP. It won't get any better.

[ringadingh]

Originally Posted by Cajunrider

Patrick,

The same symptoms started with my '07 in Custer. I have changed my gear oil 3 times in 11,000 miles. Each time, I rode a couple of miles to warm up the oil, drained it on the sidestand and filled it with the sidestand on one 2x4 laid flat. After returning home from the rally in Custer, I brought my bike to the dealership and they changed the pinion seal, o-rings, and a small coupling next to the pinion seal. I asked them if they fill it on the sidestand or straight up. They told me they fill it with the bike straight up vertical. I asked them about drowning the seal from overfilling it and their response was that the gearcase was designed to be filled straight up and level in order to satisfy the required amount of gear oil. All of the work was covered by warranty. They filled the gearcase with the bike straight up and I left it that way. I will leave it as is for the next 7,000 miles before I change the oil again. This will either prove them wrong, right, or lucky. If it begins leaking again, they will get it back and change the seal again on their dime. My first seal failed with the gearcase filled each time on the sidestand and a 2x4. I don't know why it failed and probably never will. Next time I replace the oil I will do it on the sidestand and not straight up as they do. I have 6 years of warranty so that could cover quite a few seals if they only last a little over a year like the original did. I slide my index finger under the rubber boot each time before I ride and I haven't found the slightest bit of oil yet. When I do, they will change the seal again. I suggest taking care of it ASAP. It won't get any better.

I would guess that the first seal failed because it was installed to deep in the seal retainer. This happened to me the first time and I had to replace it also. It is important to check where the old seal sits before you remove it. Also polish up the pinion shaft with some fine emery cloth where the seal rides and clean it well before assembly.

[dougster]

Ringadingh,

I appreciate the last part of your comment, especially. Cleaning up and polishing is a pretty good habit to get into anytime you are fixing or replacing something, in my opinion.

[patmahoney]

Thanks guys for all the advice, I don't think I trust myself to do this, so I am going to see if I can find someone in the area that can do it. I am a bit nervous about the local Kawa shop, the "master tech" seemed a little baffled by the problem.

Anybody have any recommendations? I am willing to ride a bit to get it done right.

[dougster]

How far away is New Hampshire from you? 150 miles? I would go see Mac, if I were you.

[ringadingh]

Take at look at this thread on the topic, If its only leaking oil from the driveshaft tube, its the easy seal to replace and you won't have to remove th ring gear, (large round gear) only the pinion lock collar has to be removed.

http://www.vulcanbagger.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=9764

[macmac]

Of I am not in error the firt 2 pics on this thread are IT, for what is wrong with Patricks Bike.

http://www.vulcanbagger.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=9764

2 O rings and a seal with out looking in the book for anything else yet...

[Todd]

Count me in for needing seals and Orings.....I had noticed a little residue on the bottom of the boot before Custer......rode about 800 miles the past 4days and I am getting a drop once in a while after parking. Checked the level and it is not really losing that much.....but needs to be addressed at some point when I have the time.....about 23,000 miles so its time for some TLC.

[Cajunrider]

Todd, Do you use synthetic or dino gear oil?

[Todd]

Always used dino gear oil. SAE 90.

Interestingly enough....while riding in the mountains it seems to drop one small drop after parking......rode 280 + miles on the interstate home today (after checking the level last night to ensure it was full AND topping it off just in case)......no drips......but it is still leaving a little residue......Guess I'll get around to fixin' it sometime :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/

Always somethin' to do, huh?

[macmac]

yeah but 23,000 isn't so bad.. On the other hand 45,000 would be more about right in miles and time. I am sure mine will go out one day, and probably sooner than later, since Murphy rides in my back pocket.

There is so much stuff in the way to get there, that it is what takes the time.

Most cars have 4 bolts at the rear of the drive shaft and a nut holding a yoke, so lots easier.

And then you have pure hell on cars with free axels and cv joints in front wheel drive, where everything is in the way. I avoid jobs like that these days.

Way OT worse of the worst was a Dodge Colt Van I did a water pump on. Who ever designed that should be flogged, then drawn and quartered still alive, hung to near death, and then gibbeted. Who ever that was has no right to call himself an Engineer.