Ethanol - an ugly thread - should you use it?

[Rookie13]

It makes as much sense as a completely neutered diesel truck that has "lower emmissions", but in turn burns more dinosaur bones. Not sure how that "saves the environment". I.E. my latest truck, full emissions- appx 450HP 12-16 MPG tops. Pulled all the dead weight emissions and added a mild tune. Now pull 22-26 MPG (16 pulling a backhoe) at 750+ HP. Too bad if there's a little Prius deterant coming from the exhaust.. As far as the E10, E15, and now I've read that an E20 will soon be available...at least we have those in the AMA and A.B.A.T.E. that are doing what they can to keep the corn syrup out of our fuel for our recreational purposes.

[mbarr10]

Holy cow, Batman. I never thought this was such an issue. As to Smokiers original post link. Which really points out the problem=Alcohol absorbs water. That seems to give some solution that we can work on. Seems many company's will fill the gaps with good and crap solutions. And now we have to sort those out. Sucks to be us! But we will ride, " F "em " I will ride. And use Embalming fluid if I have to for the winter storage. You Sons a Bitc es ( left the 'H" out to make the post) will not stop me.

[bladenbullet]

Originally Posted by MrMikey

Around here you never know what it is. The pumps say 'MAY' contain ethanol. I was always under the impression the Hi-test is ethanol free but I don't believe that to be true anymore.
I go thru gas fast enough in the summer that the gas doesn't have enough time to go bad, winter I change it out every month for fresh and dump the older in my truck.
I've seen damage caused by old ethanol fuel in small engines....not pretty, it should be outlawed and I'd drive miles further to get fuel I know is ethanol free..
I was always meaning to test it but never did get around to it..................Mike

the pump states "may contain up to 10% ethanol"...it does contain ethanol but can only be a maximum of 10% by federal law...

[smokier]

Originally Posted by bladenbullet

the pump states "may contain up to 10% ethanol"...it does contain ethanol but can only be a maximum of 10% by federal law...

There was a tale floating around about Wesson Oil being sued because someone found SPIDER parts in the Wesson Oil bottle. The Wesson label read Contains 100% Pure Vegetable Oil. So being sued for false advertising. Wesson's defense, which reportedly won the case argued that the Vegetable Oil was 100% pure and the Spider Parts were also 100% Spider parts...

My point being, it's not the percentage contained in a thing, its the quality of the contents. In this instance, IMO Ethanol is bad.

I am having fun here, not trying to offend anyone...

Ride safe,
Smokier

[Rookie13]

It’s all good...and yes, bottom line is ethanol bad.

[UNCLE WILLIE]

i have no intention of getting in a debate about fuel or any other thing here -- but my experience with e10 fuel has never been a problem -- have used 100* fuel a few times but see no difference with nomad/mowers/saws/and other things -- however i do use top tier fuel - exon - shell mostly but there are a few others on the list around here

for anyone that dont know alcohol is a catalist between gas and water -- if u have water in gas just add a little alcohol that will mix with water and gas and it all burns and goes away -- years ago i read the label on a popular gas treatment 1 said ethanol & other said methanol --- iast time i looked a gallon of gas made 2x the power of a gal of alcohol so e10 may not make as much power but so far i cannot see the diff. & not worth the cost to me

lots of strong opinions here but for me fresh premium e10 works well

[andyvh1959]

Originally Posted by bladenbullet

the pump states "may contain up to 10% ethanol"...it does contain ethanol but can only be a maximum of 10% by federal law...

That may be what is posted, that may be the law, but it is no guarantee. I recall reading in some car magazine years ago that the actual amount of alcohol in the tanks could easily vary by 5%. Meaning, the "posted" E10 could be higher. So it stands to reason E15 could be higher as well.

The whole E10/E15 market is so much bullshit. It does not reduce the need for gas production. It does not improve the environment. It only gains the ethanol producers and the lobbyists. The rest of us lose for it.

Now we get E15 BS, and all vehicles that use it get even less miles per gallon. So the end result is more gas is needed, more gas must be delivered to the in ground tanks, and the only way that fuel gets in the tanks is being transported by MORE tanker loads using more diesel fuel to get the E10/E15 to the consumer.

[Lumberjack]

That's ALL we have here in CAN unless you go premium.
I spent a month down in NC/TN and thought it was strange people filling up at the lone ethanol free pump waaaaay back in the corner.
Vehicles can be replaced where we live cannot.
It's good for the environment. Remember when we had lead in gas???

[nomadtom69]

https://www.pure-gas.org/ HERE is a web site that gives a lot of the stations with 100 percent gas some may not have it now but pretty accurate

[MrMikey]

That's ALL we have here in CAN unless you go premium.

I just tested regular gas from a local PetroCan and it was ethanol free which surprised me............Mike

[andyvh1959]

Originally Posted by Lumberjack

Vehicles can be replaced where we live cannot.
It's good for the environment. Remember when we had lead in gas???

Yes, reducing our dependence on gas and using oil for energy is good for the environment. This is the only planet we have to live on so far and we HAVE to take better care of it, for us and many generations to follow. We CANNOT continue to abuse this planet. But, NO, right now ethanol is not good for the environment. The ethanol producers and marketers like to make us think it is beneficial or that it conserves energy, which is a lie. It takes more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than it does to produce a gallon of pure gas. It requires more tanker loads of trucks burning diesel fuel to deliver more gallons of E10 or E15 to the pumps. The vehicles that burn E10 and E15 need MORE of it to achieve the same miles completed by those same vehicles that burn whole gas. So more ethanol has to be produced. It takes more energy to produce the ethanol. It takes more diesel fuel to deliver that ethanol to the in ground tanks. Vehicles burn more E10 and E15 per mile driven than on whole gas. E10 and E15 does not reduce the need to produce whole gas. How is any of that beneficial to the environment?

And, where does that additional energy required to produce the ethanol come from? Largely, natural gas and coal. So, until vehicles improve enough to get the same or better fuel mileage on E10 and E15 than on whole gas, and until production of ethanol takes no more energy to produce than whole gas, and until the energy source to produce the ethanol is cleaner to obtain/use/produce than natural gas and coal, until all that happens E10 and E15 is NOT beneficial to the environment.

Now I am not saying whole gas is or should be our only choice. We HAVE to find alternative fuels (like fuel produced from algae), or electrical powered vehicles (that DON'T get electrical energy from NG or coal powered turbines). We HAVE to continue to make vehicles that require less fuel (whatever that fuel is) per mile driven. We HAVE to find alternatives to just relying on gas powered vehicles. But let's not accept the current lies about E10 and E15 being good for the environment.

Even the Dept of Energy knows and admits that E10 and E15 costs more to the consumer per miles driven:
https://www.thoughtco.com/cost-of-us...l-fuel-1203778

[MAS Tequila]

Originally Posted by Lumberjack

That's ALL we have here in CAN unless you go premium.
I spent a month down in NC/TN and thought it was strange people filling up at the lone ethanol free pump waaaaay back in the corner.
Vehicles can be replaced where we live cannot.
It's good for the environment. Remember when we had lead in gas???

How can it be good for the environment?

It takes a god awful amount of acreage to grow.

With it being used as fuel instead of feed corn, beef, pork, and other meat prices go up.

It's economically unsustainable, if it weren't for the gov subsidies it would cost 45 cents per gallon more, which is the current subsidy here in the USA.

Here in south Florida I paid $2.39 for ethanol free fuel this morning, regular (with ethanol) was $2.19.

Where is the other .25 cents per gallon?

The overall cost to taxpayers is over $4.00 per gallon!

Then add in the repair and replacement costs due to the damage it does.

I could go on but I won't.

[Rookie13]

Found this interesting, thought I'd share.

[andyvh1959]

Very informative! Thanks.

Electric cars are inevitable as battery tech develops and the market demands more electric vehicle development. But, this type of information should be made publicly required, so the general public really understands where the development is going. This should be required viewing for anyone registering their vehicle license, or at least be distributed in paper form along with your license tags for renewal.

Like I said earlier, until we are primarily getting our electricity from renewable sources (which is decades away) electric/hybrid vehicles cost more to society in total. Right now, the only persons to benefit $$ from driving an electric vehicle, is the person paying for the vehicle. But without US government subsidies, that would be FAR fewer than presently being driven on US roads. But, new persons in government, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are far liberal enough to demand MAJOR costly changes be made effective within the next ten years or less. Be wary of the "New Green Deal", or at least be very aware of it, and who pushes it.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...than-you-think

[smokier]

It was an interesting listen... More to ponder.

Ride safe,
Smokier