2014 Victory Cross Country Tour

[dshelly]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

The truth of the matter is after we bombed the Japanese into oblivion in 1945 and the surrender the U.S. agreed to help them rebuild with the most modern factories. as We still used ancient factories that weren't able to compete with the Japanese updated "Post Bombing" factories.

Now this U.S has the high tech stuff and build some of the best most technological equipment. Like Victory uses!

You just had to get that last bit in there didn't you ???

[cactusjack]

Does anyone remember this? It was popular in the 70's...

[ponch]

Originally Posted by cliffordgos

The Japanese didn't always make quality products. After World War II and up into the early sixties most Americans thought about Japanese products pretty much what we think of cheap crap from China. In my youth (early sixties) just seeing the label

"Made in Japan" = Crap!

No longer is that the case. I find it ironic that the reason the Japanese are now known for their "Quality" is because of American Dr. W. Edwards Deming.



http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Deming-Amer.../dp/0671746219



Click on 1950-1960



https://www.deming.org/theman/timeline





What he did was teach them that is was cheaper and better to produce Quality vs Quantity.



You are right that China and Japan are not the best of friends and things are not looking up.



http://rt.com/op-edge/japan-abe-nati...ter-china-535/



I think that with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe recently visiting the Yasukuni Shrine that it sent a strong message to China and Korea.

Read the paper I posted. The cultures have different values. To put it simply, the Chinese want a quick buck, the Japanese want to make money, but they also believe in quality and innovation. The Chinese don't and are the worst offenders of intellectual property rights. They also don't seem to care about the consequences of their shabby manufacturing. Money first to build their empire to supplant us with our own money. The Japanese and Chinese are just two very different scenarios.

[Silent Sam]

..As for how it all shakes out !

By the early 1970's..the unknowing average man in the USA had already been targeted for ..what ever he has salvaged today...and is in line for losing tomarrow !...Kissinger said openly in an interview in the mid 70's .."we are intending to reduce the standard of living for the average American..to a level more on par with the third world countries"

As of 2014 .... The Great Dupe And Loot .... Continues

[schoeney]

CJ....I don't remember that but I did like it...Thanks

[cliffordgos]

Originally Posted by ponch

Read the paper I posted. The cultures have different values. To put it simply, the Chinese want a quick buck, the Japanese want to make money, but they also believe in quality and innovation. The Chinese don't and are the worst offenders of intellectual property rights. They also don't seem to care about the consequences of their shabby manufacturing. Money first to build their empire to supplant us with our own money. The Japanese and Chinese are just two very different scenarios.

I did read the paper you posted and I agree with you that the Japanese culture is different from the Chinese and I think you are right about Chicoms and how they do business.

I have been a fan of the Japanese people and their culture for a long time, especially the women, I like the Japanese women so much that 38 years ago I married one.


I was just pointing out that the Japanese manufacturing didn't embrace "Quality" until after the war.
An American named Dr Edwards Deming helped them turn things around.
"His influential work in Japan--instructing top executives and engineers in quality management--was a driving force behind that nation's economic rise. Dr. Deming contributed directly to Japan's phenomenal export-led growth and its current technological leadership in automobiles, shipbuilding and electronics. The Union of Japanese Science and Engineering (JUSE) saluted its teacher with the institution of the annual Deming Prize for significant achievement in product quality and dependability. In 1960, the Emperor of Japan bestowed on Dr. Deming the Second Order Medal of the Sacred Treasure."

For the last 40 years or more I would agree that they have been innovative. But from the 1970s and on back they were known for copying others. They were still under the rule of the Shogun(Samurai stuff) until Emperor Meiji took power and the Meiji Restoration didn't end until about 1912 or so. They had a lot of catching up to do.

After all that.... my point is that Japan was able to change the way they did business in a very short amount of time. I don't think you can under estimate China.

[Top Cat]

I remember that Scott, I forgot about it though, just like the countrys we help forget about our help once they get it

[Dave]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

Does anyone remember this? It was popular in the 70's...

A country long since gone!

[ponch]

Originally Posted by cliffordgos

I did read the paper you posted and I agree with you that the Japanese culture is different from the Chinese and I think you are right about Chicoms and how they do business.

I have been a fan of the Japanese people and their culture for a long time, especially the women, I like the Japanese women so much that 38 years ago I married one.


I was just pointing out that the Japanese manufacturing didn't embrace "Quality" until after the war.
An American named Dr Edwards Deming helped them turn things around.
"His influential work in Japan--instructing top executives and engineers in quality management--was a driving force behind that nation's economic rise. Dr. Deming contributed directly to Japan's phenomenal export-led growth and its current technological leadership in automobiles, shipbuilding and electronics. The Union of Japanese Science and Engineering (JUSE) saluted its teacher with the institution of the annual Deming Prize for significant achievement in product quality and dependability. In 1960, the Emperor of Japan bestowed on Dr. Deming the Second Order Medal of the Sacred Treasure."

For the last 40 years or more I would agree that they have been innovative. But from the 1970s and on back they were known for copying others. They were still under the rule of the Shogun(Samurai stuff) until Emperor Meiji took power and the Meiji Restoration didn't end until about 1912 or so. They had a lot of catching up to do.

After all that.... my point is that Japan was able to change the way they did business in a very short amount of time. I don't think you can under estimate China.

I think they embraced it before the war too. Their aircraft were pretty good as were their ships. Have you seen a real Daito? It's a work of art. The war destroyed their ability to make anything let alone make things of quality and there were probably a lot fewer qualified people to do it too. War has some negative effects. I just don't think the Chinese are cut from the same cloth and don't have the same intentions either.

As far as underestimating china, I don't. We're funding our destruction and they think in terms of 50 or 100 years, not 4 year increments. We are making some big mistakes with them.

[mick56]

Originally Posted by cliffordgos

The Japanese didn't always make quality products. After World War II and up into the early sixties most Americans thought about Japanese products pretty much what we think of cheap crap from China. In my youth (early sixties) just seeing the label
"Made in Japan" = Crap!
No longer is that the case. I find it ironic that the reason the Japanese are now known for their "Quality" is because of American Dr. W. Edwards Deming.

http://www.amazon.com/Dr-Deming-Amer.../dp/0671746219

Click on 1950-1960

https://www.deming.org/theman/timeline


What he did was teach them that is was cheaper and better to produce Quality vs Quantity.

You are right that China and Japan are not the best of friends and things are not looking up.

http://rt.com/op-edge/japan-abe-nati...ter-china-535/

I think that with Prime Minister Shinzo Abe recently visiting the Yasukuni Shrine that it sent a strong message to China and Korea.

Is it really a good idea for America to have millitary bases in everyones back yard, the monetary influence of this policy is pissing a lot of people off, now American congressmen are standing up in the ukraine, telling the people to revolt against the democratically elected government, ( because they have a gas pipeline from russian oilfields that the good old USA wants to control) WTF, how would it be if it were the other way around ! people are dying, and its just getting started,everywhere the Americans go they leave a mess. its just plain wrong mate, all wrong .

[ponch]

Originally Posted by mick56

Is it really a good idea for America to have millitary bases in everyones back yard, the monetary influence of this policy is pissing a lot of people off, now American congressmen are standing up in the ukraine, telling the people to revolt against the democratically elected government, ( because they have a gas pipeline from russian oilfields that the good old USA wants to control) WTF, how would it be if it were the other way around ! people are dying, and its just getting started,everywhere the Americans go they leave a mess. its just plain wrong mate, all wrong .

Talk about non-sequiturs.

Luckily, we don't buy Ukrainian motorcycles. As far as oil goes, I think we have enough right here and after all, we didn't get any special favors after Iraq. That meme is pretty much rubbish. If there's any place that needs a revolution, it's here. Now, lets get back to the Victory Bagger Association.

[mick56]

Originally Posted by cactusjack

Does anyone remember this? It was popular in the 70's...

we british designed and built the boats you blokes grandaddies left England in,we did the same with the steam locomotive that you used to tame the west and wipe out all the locals and create America, we did it differently in india and just about everywhere else where we went, most of youre engineers,bridge builders, dam builders,surveyors, and architects were british, all we wanted was a bit of tax as a return on our investment, and you blokes spat the dummy and threw the tea into boston harbour , and we owe you for turning up late for ww1 and ww2? and only then when you blackmailed us into handing over half of our colonies to you for giving us a line of credit at an extortionate rate, which we alone amongst the allies payed back every penny right up until a few years ago, that massive surge in exports is what made the 1950,s so prosperous that your old man had a nice house and a v8 in the garage, while my mother and father went ragitty assed and hungry to feed me and my brother, When it comes to aeroplanes , Rolls Royce engines not only powered the British spitfire and Hurricane that won the battle of Britain ( which you blokes missed )but also the p54 mustang that youre blokes used, and to this day Rolls Royce engines power more aeroplanes than any other manufacturer, you stole the rights to the jet engine that frank whittle (another Englishman) designed,same with the hawker harrier jumps thrust system,We all thank you kindly for your help in our hour of need, but hitler and tojo had declared war on you too, so dont take the piss, we are just a small island but we reserve the right to be proud of our history.all the best, Mick.

[mick56]

Originally Posted by ponch

Talk about non-sequiturs.

Luckily, we don't buy Ukrainian motorcycles. As far as oil goes, I think we have enough right here and after all, we didn't get any special favors after Iraq. That meme is pretty much rubbish. If there's any place that needs a revolution, it's here. Now, lets get back to the Victory Bagger Association.

Not yet you dont, and your country allways wants more oil, they send your blokes out to die for it, your economy got a boost from the millitary spending i reckon, i am with you on the other point, so do we, and please excuse my rant, i am busy doing my bit to help the American economy by guzzleing jack daniels

[ponch]

Originally Posted by mick56

we british designed and built the boats you blokes grandaddies left England in,we did the same with the steam locomotive that you used to tame the west and wipe out all the locals and create America, we did it differently in india and just about everywhere else where we went, most of youre engineers,bridge builders, dam builders,surveyors, and architects were british, all we wanted was a bit of tax as a return on our investment, and you blokes spat the dummy and threw the tea into boston harbour , and we owe you for turning up late for ww1 and ww2? and only then when you blackmailed us into handing over half of our colonies to you for giving us a line of credit at an extortionate rate, which we alone amongst the allies payed back every penny right up until a few years ago, that massive surge in exports is what made the 1950,s so prosperous that your old man had a nice house and a v8 in the garage, while my mother and father went ragitty assed and hungry to feed me and my brother, When it comes to aeroplanes , Rolls Royce engines not only powered the British spitfire and Hurricane that won the battle of Britain ( which you blokes missed )but also the p54 mustang that youre blokes used, and to this day Rolls Royce engines power more aeroplanes than any other manufacturer, you stole the rights to the jet engine that frank whittle (another Englishman) designed,same with the hawker harrier jumps thrust system,We all thank you kindly for your help in our hour of need, but hitler and tojo had declared war on you too, so dont take the piss, we are just a small island but we reserve the right to be proud of our history.all the best, Mick.

I will start off by saying I am part english on my mom's side, BUT, may be you need to reread your history. I can tell you that my dad did 35 missions in a B-17 from Chelveston. May be we should have stayed home and let you and your countrymen learn German. Hitler was in no position to attack America and hoped we stayed out. The Japanese are another story and got their comeuppance. I am really starting to believe that the best came here and the worst stayed behind, taking the role of wine and beer drinking surrender monkeys. England didn't hand over anything to the US for our troubles either.

At least you have Pat Condell, a saving grace.

[redjay]

I learnt German in school in England, does that make me a surrender monkey, whatever that is ? Not all Englishmen have the same mindset with regard to the U.S even though I do get a major hassle at the border (g).