Motorcycle braking analogy

[flavor]

Try a little experiment. Take a bicycle that has front and rear brakes, and while walking along side of it drag the rear brake only. Then do the same thing dragging the front brake.

Then repeat but his time locking up the rear break only. Now repeat once again just locking up the front brake.

It's a great eye opener. You'll find if using just the rear break the rear tire breaks lose with little breaking but, when using the front the tire doesn't break loose as easy. Also note how much easier it is the stop with the front brake vs. the rear. If your rear brakes wear out a lot faster you may be too heavy on the rear. Also when you negotiate a turn and take it a little too fast, remember to be heavier on your front brakes.

[dogdoc]

I use my front brake alot more than my rear(may not be kosher) but it works for me, if you take a turn too fast and use your front brake flavor you might end up on the ground, IMO.

[Top Cat]

If I go into a turn to fast I stay the hell off the front brake. I use the rear very lightly. Using the front brake in a turn, in my opinion, is a good way to slide the front tire out from under you.

[dantama]

Braking is all about the traction pie. If traction were a pie, you can divide it up any way you want to, between braking, cornering, unused reserve traction. As long as you don't exceed the total amount of traction, you can divide it up any way you want to. Do note that pavement surface and suspension reactions influence the total amount of traction.

So if you were going in a straight line, you could use a tremendous about of traction just for braking. Throw a corner into the mix and you have to take some away from braking and give it to cornering. But cornering doesn't use all of the available traction, so there is still some left over for braking.

I have never lost traction with a front tire in a paved corner ever. Never, Never, Never. Every corner that I have been around in my entire life has had traction left over.

I have never ran out of traction for the front tire in a corner while braking either. It would be possible, but I've never done it, and I routinely brake with a front brake in corners.

One thing that is more likely to perhaps be a problem is the effect of suspension upset while braking in a corner. The forks will dive if braking hard, and that will change the geometry of the steering and upset the dynamics and perhaps cause you to exceed traction, but I've never even been close. But theoretically it is possible.

When I bomb a canyon on my bike, as opposed to a casual ride, I fly up to corners hard, brake and accelerate back out. I'm often braking with the front brake in corners. Now put a passenger on and I'm trying to coast or brake speed off prior to the corner and mildly accelerate through them. Two different approaches depending on what I'm doing and who's with me.

So front braking in a corner is perfectly fine and useful, as long as you don't exceed the traction reserves. And you have to be braking pretty hard to do that.

So if you really need to stop in a corner, say an approaching car is in your lane, stand it up straight and do maximum braking. That way no traction will be used for cornering and all the traction can be used for getting rid of speed.

[dantama]

Here's a discussion we had on maximum braking in the safety forum for anyone who missed it and is interested in more.

click here

[flavor]

Studies have shown that the average person cannot control front and rear to an optimum. So since 70 to 80% of braking is done with the front brake, it's best to concentrate on the front brake. That does not mean not to use the rear. (Situation taken into consideration). http://webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-S...aking-tips.htm

The point of discussion was intended to give an easy way to feel braking differnces to riders who may be too heavy on the rear brake.

[flavor]

Dan:
I agree 1000%. I've read about the traction pie before. I've also straightened up a bike more than once (in my younger years) while in a turn hit the brakes hard, and gone back into the turn again, and survived. Lucky. I;m not sure how many lives I have left.

Flavor

[bosko]

+1 on the traction pie. I've had the opportunity to taste the traction pie. Taste like dirt.

[dantama]

Originally Posted by Bosko

+1 on the traction pie. I've had the opportunity to taste the traction pie. Taste like dirt.

The only time I've run afoul of the traction pie, it was on dirt. Yup, tasted like dirt too.

If one routinely uses brakes in curves or corners, obviously he/she is not getting slowed down properly prior to entering said curve. Roadracers rarely brake once actually leaned over, but if they do it is trail braking using the rear brake. Flat track racers for many years did not have brakes on them at all, and now have only rear brakes.
The way I was taught 40 some years ago was to get slowed down and then accelerate through the curve or corner. I still believe that is the proper way and the quickest.

[aj]

Riding at low speed in the dirt, in a turn, in front of strangers, FRONT BRAKE! - mud pie (and red face)

Most people in a panic will over brake the rear and under brake the front. Nothing wrong with using the front brake as dan said. Its alot easier to lock the rear brake. If you haven't tried doing so yet, see how hard you can actually pull the front brake before it locks, you don't need to be going very fast to find out the front brake is far superior to the rear.

[moenko]

Absolutely agree!!! Front brake is supplementing the rear brake (for me). It's safer and also cheaper that way, only have to change ONE set of pads on the rear brake ;)

Every MSF course teaches you to use both brakes simultaneously and I still think that is the best practice if uncertain. The only thing that has to be "learned" is the amount of braking to be applied to each brake to make the stop in the necessary distance.

Originally Posted by Top Cat (TC)

If I go into a turn to fast I stay the hell off the front brake. I use the rear very lightly. Using the front brake in a turn, in my opinion, is a good way to slide the front tire out from under you.

[dantama]

Originally Posted by moenko

Absolutely agree!!! Front brake is supplementing the rear brake (for me). It's safer...

Moenko, will you give more detials on the safer part?

[jussmatt]

I'm w/ Dan on this one... I use the Front Brake in corners from time to time, but like Dan also said, it depends on the riding style at the time. If I'm by myself and riding hard, then I'll use the Front more ...and the Rear more too for that matter... but if I'm 2 up and take a leisure ride, then I'm less likely to use the Front since my speeds already slower.

All that being said.....there are some corners that I take on my daily commute that have some loose gravel in them.... Obviously in those corners, I make sure I'm going much slower, thus not needing the Front brake.