Go Back   Vulcan Bagger Forums > General > Off-Topic

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-21-2017, 11:42 AM   #61
ponch   ponch is offline
Sr. Contributor
 
ponch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Way East Valley
Posts: 12,014
Future support will be a problem. If it's hard to get parts now, it won't improve. That said I'd have two words for whoever was in charge of this fuck up: Excelsior Henderson. The only way they didn't see this coming is if they're incompetent and yet he'll get a bonus for more than I make a year. It must be true that executive ranks have a disproportionate percentage of narcissistic psychopaths than the general population. Only someone like that could pull it off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Ponch
VBA 0019
VROC 8109-R
BMWMOA 162849
BMWRA 41335

BMW: When you care enough to ride the very best.

My Motorrad Blog
My Motorrad YouTube


2009 BMW R1200RT

Previous bikes:2007 Nomad | 2001 Vulcan 800 Classic | 1984 GPz750 | 1978 KZ1000A2

Rallies: Custer '09|Prairie Du Chien '10|Crescent City '11



Login or Register to Remove Ads
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 02:30 PM   #62
Top Cat   Top Cat is offline
 
Top Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Peoples Republic of New York State
Posts: 15,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponch View Post
. The only way they ( who are they) didn't see this coming is if they're incompetent and yet he'll ( who is he ) get a bonus for more than I make a year.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
...
__________________
Tim "TC" Conley
VBA #9



2011 Victory Kingpin mine
2013 Victory Boardwalk -hers




[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]
[SIZE=4]
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 04:14 PM   #63
ponch   ponch is offline
Sr. Contributor
 
ponch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Way East Valley
Posts: 12,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
...


Do some research. It ain't that hard. Do you think it happens by magic or divinity? The number of people involved in such decision making is relatively small and the customer isn't the first or second consideration maybe not the third and this isn't a mom and pop operation either. Different rules apply.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Ponch
VBA 0019
VROC 8109-R
BMWMOA 162849
BMWRA 41335

BMW: When you care enough to ride the very best.

My Motorrad Blog
My Motorrad YouTube


2009 BMW R1200RT

Previous bikes:2007 Nomad | 2001 Vulcan 800 Classic | 1984 GPz750 | 1978 KZ1000A2

Rallies: Custer '09|Prairie Du Chien '10|Crescent City '11
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 06:38 PM   #64
glwilson   glwilson is offline
 
glwilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 8,575
This has been beat like a dead horse, but i couldn't help notice a few posts needing a response.

1st; Indians outsell Vic's 11 to 1.

2nd; Vic's were not meeting Europe's version of the EPA requirements, thus eliminating the possibility for Polaris to sell Vic's overseas. (Those same standards apply in other countries as well, to include the best Int'l motorcycle markets.) To meet the standards would require a complete change to the bikes, and Polaris isn't up for the challenge or cost to do so.

3rd; a comment was made that Indians sell about half of what HD sells. That is simply not true, and couldn't be more wrong. They are a long, long way from selling near the same number of bikes, whether you measure it in the U.S. or any other market; or as total combined world-wide sales. Again, Indians are a long way from selling the number of bikes HD does. Not even close. Some simple research on Google would suffice to prove this fact. Hint, look for each company's year-end reporting; or industry sales reports. At this moment, only 2015's information is available; however initial numbers for 2016 doesn't show much improvement.

Lastly, while bashing CEO's or other top-management seems like an easy task, quite frankly it sound a bit mis-informed, to say the least. Research the sales reports for Polaris and you will quickly find it did not make sense to continue the Victory line, if not for any other reason than their sales numbers, and that fact they are limited for growth internationally. That is NOT saying it isn't a good bike, or even a great bike, it is simply stating it doesn't make monetary sense. JMHO after spending some time looking through the various documents available to the public by a publicly-traded company.
__________________


"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

"You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts."

Former VBA NCR Assist Regional Leader
Formerly: 2004 1500FI Bronze Nomad: 2009 & 2014 HD Ultra
Current Rides: 2017 HD Ultra Limited & 2011 Can Am Spyder RTS-SE
Attended: VBA National Rallies 2009, 2011, 2015; VBA/NCR Regional Rally 2010, 12, 14, 16 and several rides throughout with regional members.
VBA Member #652
HOG Member #3935417

Last edited by glwilson; 01-21-2017 at 06:42 PM.
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 07:36 PM   #65
ponch   ponch is offline
Sr. Contributor
 
ponch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Way East Valley
Posts: 12,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by glwilson View Post
This has been beat like a dead horse, but i couldn't help notice a few posts needing a response.

1st; Indians outsell Vic's 11 to 1.

2nd; Vic's were not meeting Europe's version of the EPA requirements, thus eliminating the possibility for Polaris to sell Vic's overseas. (Those same standards apply in other countries as well, to include the best Int'l motorcycle markets.) To meet the standards would require a complete change to the bikes, and Polaris isn't up for the challenge or cost to do so.

3rd; a comment was made that Indians sell about half of what HD sells. That is simply not true, and couldn't be more wrong. They are a long, long way from selling near the same number of bikes, whether you measure it in the U.S. or any other market; or as total combined world-wide sales. Again, Indians are a long way from selling the number of bikes HD does. Not even close. Some simple research on Google would suffice to prove this fact. Hint, look for each company's year-end reporting; or industry sales reports. At this moment, only 2015's information is available; however initial numbers for 2016 doesn't show much improvement.

Lastly, while bashing CEO's or other top-management seems like an easy task, quite frankly it sound a bit mis-informed, to say the least. Research the sales reports for Polaris and you will quickly find it did not make sense to continue the Victory line, if not for any other reason than their sales numbers, and that fact they are limited for growth internationally. That is NOT saying it isn't a good bike, or even a great bike, it is simply stating it doesn't make monetary sense. JMHO after spending some time looking through the various documents available to the public by a publicly-traded company.
I did't do it because it's an easy task. My complaint is that this wasn't done at the last minute or recently. There's no way they didn't anticipate this when they bought Indian. I just think it's dishonest in some ways and a lot of customers are going to be stuck with greatly devalued products and over a short time one that won't have good support. With JIT production it can be difficult to get parts immediately with companies that aren't doing bad. With one that went under, the supply for spares will go away fairly quickly.
__________________
Ponch
VBA 0019
VROC 8109-R
BMWMOA 162849
BMWRA 41335

BMW: When you care enough to ride the very best.

My Motorrad Blog
My Motorrad YouTube


2009 BMW R1200RT

Previous bikes:2007 Nomad | 2001 Vulcan 800 Classic | 1984 GPz750 | 1978 KZ1000A2

Rallies: Custer '09|Prairie Du Chien '10|Crescent City '11



Login or Register to Remove Ads
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 09:52 PM   #66
Rasta   Rasta is offline
 
Rasta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ankeny Iowa
Posts: 3,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by glwilson View Post
This has been beat like a dead horse, but i couldn't help notice a few posts needing a respons.
I wouldn't say this has been beaten like a dead horse considering there has only been 64 responses, 65 now with mine on this thread. Most of the conversation has been civil and not mocked those that did by these bikes, which has been nice. I am sure if it was the other way around the mocking would have been endless. So I can say I am proud on how folks have contacted themselves and added salt to the wound.
__________________
VROC#34321
VBA#01867

2012 NCR Rally Savanna. IL.
2013 National Rally Estes Park, CO
2014 NC/SC Rally in the Ozarks, Mountain View AR
2014 NE US/Eastern Canada Rally,Lincoln NH
2015 VBA/VRA Eureka Springs AR
2015 Antlers Rally, Antlers OK.
2016 SCR Rally Salem MO.
2016 NCR Rally Hillsboro WI
2017 Eureka Springs AR
2017 National Rally Lake George NY
2004 Blue and Silver 1500 Nomad(RIP 9-26-19)
2000 Red and Silver 1500 Nomad
2012 Pearl White 1700 Voyager
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 10:22 PM   #67
Top Cat   Top Cat is offline
 
Top Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Peoples Republic of New York State
Posts: 15,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponch View Post
Do some research. It ain't that hard.
I have better things to do, but I thought a quick answer from you who already did the research would clarify for me.
But that's ok, I'll keep busy putting the parts I ordered on my kingpin
__________________
Tim "TC" Conley
VBA #9



2011 Victory Kingpin mine
2013 Victory Boardwalk -hers




[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]
[SIZE=4]
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 09:19 AM   #68
ponch   ponch is offline
Sr. Contributor
 
ponch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Way East Valley
Posts: 12,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
I have better things to do, but I thought a quick answer from you who already did the research would clarify for me.
But that's ok, I'll keep busy putting the parts I ordered on my kingpin


Lets see how that works in a year or two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Ponch
VBA 0019
VROC 8109-R
BMWMOA 162849
BMWRA 41335

BMW: When you care enough to ride the very best.

My Motorrad Blog
My Motorrad YouTube


2009 BMW R1200RT

Previous bikes:2007 Nomad | 2001 Vulcan 800 Classic | 1984 GPz750 | 1978 KZ1000A2

Rallies: Custer '09|Prairie Du Chien '10|Crescent City '11
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 09:42 AM   #69
Top Cat   Top Cat is offline
 
Top Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Peoples Republic of New York State
Posts: 15,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponch View Post
Lets see how that works in a year or two.

I'm not worried. I will be riding my Victory for many more years.
__________________
Tim "TC" Conley
VBA #9



2011 Victory Kingpin mine
2013 Victory Boardwalk -hers




[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]
[SIZE=4]
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 09:56 AM   #70
ponch   ponch is offline
Sr. Contributor
 
ponch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Way East Valley
Posts: 12,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
I'm not worried. I will be riding my Victory for many more years.


Maybe. You'll see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Ponch
VBA 0019
VROC 8109-R
BMWMOA 162849
BMWRA 41335

BMW: When you care enough to ride the very best.

My Motorrad Blog
My Motorrad YouTube


2009 BMW R1200RT

Previous bikes:2007 Nomad | 2001 Vulcan 800 Classic | 1984 GPz750 | 1978 KZ1000A2

Rallies: Custer '09|Prairie Du Chien '10|Crescent City '11
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 12:20 PM   #71
glwilson   glwilson is offline
 
glwilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 8,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasta View Post
I wouldn't say this has been beaten like a dead horse considering there has only been 64 responses, 65 now with mine on this thread. Most of the conversation has been civil and not mocked those that did by these bikes, which has been nice. I am sure if it was the other way around the mocking would have been endless. So I can say I am proud on how folks have contacted themselves and added salt to the wound.
The subject has been beat like a dead horse all over social media, on Vic blogs, and etc. VBA isn't the only blog site in existence; which is what I was referring too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
I have better things to do, but I thought a quick answer from you who already did the research would clarify for me.
But that's ok, I'll keep busy putting the parts I ordered on my kingpin
I wouldn't know about how easy it will be to get parts, but if you go by other Vic owners, of which some I know personally, or on their blog sites, there were common threads complaining about getting parts. One owner I know, needed something electrical for his Vic and found out there were only two in existence in the U.S.; which caused unnecessary delay in getting his bike fixed. This was while Polaris was still making Vic's. Cannot imagine this would improve for uncommon parts for their bikes now that they have ceased production. Looking at other Polaris product sites, you find this to be a common problem with most of their products. Some parts come at a premium when needed, if at all. I, personally, hope this isn't an issue, but highly doubt it will not be.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ponch View Post
I did't do it because it's an easy task. My complaint is that this wasn't done at the last minute or recently. There's no way they didn't anticipate this when they bought Indian. I just think it's dishonest in some ways and a lot of customers are going to be stuck with greatly devalued products and over a short time one that won't have good support. With JIT production it can be difficult to get parts immediately with companies that aren't doing bad. With one that went under, the supply for spares will go away fairly quickly.
I wasn't directly punching-back at you, but to the many posts on various sites slamming the management of Polaris. Hey, I am not known to be a defender of the corporate world, however, I have come to appreciate the difficulty of managing a large corporation. There are many things involved in making a successful company that most have not clue about; and some of these change very fast. Hell, just the discussion of currency-exchange, or commodity futures contracts would put the average person in their place; however an in-depth knowledge of these matters is paramount in running a successful company. Those two subjects are only a small part of the big picture. From what I have read, the defining moment for Victory demise came when recently they were not certified by the Int'l version of the EPA. Polaris hoped Vic's would pass, and were devastated when they did not. Polaris, as any other motorcycle company, has to have sales in the Int'l market. The bad part is they did not meet certification by a large margin; which would then require a complete redesign of the Victory line. The cost would be prohibitive for most any company, and it would also change the very reason Victory fans love them. It just wouldn't be the same bike. When you put the fact Vic sales pale compared to Indian sales, their choice was inevitable.
__________________


"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

"You can have your own opinion, but not your own facts."

Former VBA NCR Assist Regional Leader
Formerly: 2004 1500FI Bronze Nomad: 2009 & 2014 HD Ultra
Current Rides: 2017 HD Ultra Limited & 2011 Can Am Spyder RTS-SE
Attended: VBA National Rallies 2009, 2011, 2015; VBA/NCR Regional Rally 2010, 12, 14, 16 and several rides throughout with regional members.
VBA Member #652
HOG Member #3935417
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 02:13 PM   #72
Rookie13   Rookie13 is offline
 
Rookie13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Posts: 179
Thanks for the comments and research, Greg. The overseas competition and EPA requirements internationally has actually been a trouble spot for them for a few years. Seems like it's been more important to have their snowmobiles worldwide than the Vic line. Very disheartening demise of an amazing motorcycle line. Victory had an amazing effect on the motorcycle world. Brother-in-law is already planning on trading his '13 C-Country for a Dark Horse this spring.
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 03:30 PM   #73
Top Cat   Top Cat is offline
 
Top Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Peoples Republic of New York State
Posts: 15,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie13 View Post
Brother-in-law is already planning on trading his '13 C-Country for a Dark Horse this spring.
Why the hell would anybody get rid of a POLARIS Victory to buy a POLARIS Indian \
Do they not think a company can screw their customers more than once
__________________
Tim "TC" Conley
VBA #9



2011 Victory Kingpin mine
2013 Victory Boardwalk -hers




[LEFT][COLOR=#000000]
[SIZE=4]
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 04:22 PM   #74
redjay   redjay is offline
Top Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 6,920
^^^^

Those were my thoughts.
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2017, 04:58 PM   #75
ponch   ponch is offline
Sr. Contributor
 
ponch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Way East Valley
Posts: 12,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie13 View Post
Thanks for the comments and research, Greg. The overseas competition and EPA requirements internationally has actually been a trouble spot for them for a few years. Seems like it's been more important to have their snowmobiles worldwide than the Vic line. Very disheartening demise of an amazing motorcycle line. Victory had an amazing effect on the motorcycle world. Brother-in-law is already planning on trading his '13 C-Country for a Dark Horse this spring.
The thing is, ever tightening EPA restrictions is something that can be forecasted and therefore expected. With that factored in, the decision that was executed a week or two ago was a known possibility if not probability or even certainty years ago. It's not like they made the decision the week before and they didn't use a ouija board. Another thing is that other companies face the same challenges and meet them.
__________________
Ponch
VBA 0019
VROC 8109-R
BMWMOA 162849
BMWRA 41335

BMW: When you care enough to ride the very best.

My Motorrad Blog
My Motorrad YouTube


2009 BMW R1200RT

Previous bikes:2007 Nomad | 2001 Vulcan 800 Classic | 1984 GPz750 | 1978 KZ1000A2

Rallies: Custer '09|Prairie Du Chien '10|Crescent City '11
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.