Pinging on 93?

yesterday went on a long ride. I noticed that on hard accelerating the bike was pinging pretty bad. As I came back down on the throttle it went away. The bike is stock. Thoughts?

[Cajunrider]

It's more than likely running pretty lean. They are blending ethanol in the majority of the gasolines and that doesn't help either. I would suggest installing a Cobra or TFI fuel processor to richen up the fuel / air mixture. You can also replace your stock NGK spark plugs with one step colder. The part number is NGK DPR7EA-9. The stock plugs on the 1600 are NGK DPR6EA-9. I replaced my stock plugs with the colder plugs at my dealers suggestion to reduce the pinging. It worked with the 93 but I had to install the TFI to stop pinging with 91 and 87 octane. Other than debaffling, my '07 is stock also.

[billmac]

Lots of guys smarter than me on this site, but I will give you my 2 cents. My bone stock 2007 pinged and ran hot bone stock. Sometimes it would simply cough and die.

I think we can blame the EPA for these issues. The Nomad is too lean of fuel bone stock. A TFI gave me a much nicer bike to ride and solved these issues. My cooling fan rarely comes on now and I have to really work to hear a ping on 93 octane. Some guys are even running regular gas without a ping with a TFI.

[redjay]

I run regular gas since the TFI install and no pinging. Mine was one of the bad ones, pinging even on 93 and the fan came on often (05). The TFI and 9" air cleaner makes the bike much more enjoyable to ride. It also cured the stumble and gasp between the 1st and 2nd gear shift.

[ponch]

I have to wonder on the ethanol content. Here in Iowa they put ethanol in 89 and 91 octane gas. Even after my throttle body cleaning, my mileage hasn't gone up to what it was. E85 is is 60 cents cheaper. I have to wonder if they are boosting ethanol content to boost profit. Just my paranoid self. I put E85 in my Suburban and the mileage difference wasn't as much as you would think (1 mpg).

Originally Posted by redjay

I run regular gas since the TFI install and no pinging. Mine was one of the bad ones, pinging even on 93 and the fan came on often (05). The TFI and 9" air cleaner makes the bike much more enjoyable to ride. It also cured the stumble and gasp between the 1st and 2nd gear shift.

[claybuster]

Originally Posted by Cajunrider

It's more than likely running pretty lean. They are blending ethanol in the majority of the gasolines and that doesn't help either. I would suggest installing a Cobra or TFI fuel processor to richen up the fuel / air mixture. You can also replace your stock NGK spark plugs with one step colder. The part number is NGK DPR7EA-9. The stock plugs on the 1600 are NGK DPR6EA-9. I replaced my stock plugs with the colder plugs at my dealers suggestion to reduce the pinging. It worked with the 93 but I had to install the TFI to stop pinging with 91 and 87 octane. Other than debaffling, my '07 is stock also.

Cajunrider, what TFI settings did you settle on? What is your average gas mileage now?
Did the colder plug really help when using 93 octane? Are all 4 plugs the same number? My 07 Nomad is totally stock except for the TFI and debaffled mufflers. I'm still using the stock goat belly. This past weekend my wife a I had a 3 day trip, 545 miles and rode the entire length of Skyline Drive in Virginia. I was experiencing very little or no pinging for the first 2 tanks of 93 octane (Sheetz gas and Exxon gas). This was with my TFI settings at 2:45 - 5 - 1 - 9. The next tank of Exxon 93 I had pretty bad pinging again like before installing the TFI. I could make it ping just slowly rolling on the throttle. After riding for 2 hours I stopped and changed my TFI settings to 3 - 6 - 2 - 8:30. I still had a ping, now I'm thinking the Exxon where I filled up last probably had a lower octane gas like 89 or 87 in their 93 octane tank. (I'm sure that happens sometimes, even intentionally because most cars and car drivers won't notice the difference) For the next gas stop I filled up with Shell to try their 93 Super hoping the ping would be eliminated. WRONG... I still have a ping and I know the TFI is working. I saw the lights come on and off and I have a F&S tach on my bike. When I adjusted the 1st pot my RPM's peaked at # 3 on the TFI and the idle was also the smoothest running.
Does anyone have another suggestion? I will try the next colder spark plug to see if that helps but again I could be getting a lower octane gas at the pump then what the tank at the gas station shows. I wish there was a way to check the octane we put in our bikes to confirm what it really is.

Thanks.
Glenn

[claybuster]

Originally Posted by billmac

Lots of guys smarter than me on this site, but I will give you my 2 cents. My bone stock 2007 pinged and ran hot bone stock. Sometimes it would simply cough and die.

I think we can blame the EPA for these issues. The Nomad is too lean of fuel bone stock. A TFI gave me a much nicer bike to ride and solved these issues. My cooling fan rarely comes on now and I have to really work to hear a ping on 93 octane. Some guys are even running regular gas without a ping with a TFI.

Hi Bill, what TFI settings did you settle on? What mods have been done to your bike compared to mine? What is your average gas mileage now? Please read my message above to Cajunrider.
Thanks. Glenn

[claybuster]

Originally Posted by redjay

I run regular gas since the TFI install and no pinging. Mine was one of the bad ones, pinging even on 93 and the fan came on often (05). The TFI and 9" air cleaner makes the bike much more enjoyable to ride. It also cured the stumble and gasp between the 1st and 2nd gear shift.

Hi Redjay
Mine was really a bad one too. What TFI settings did you settle on? What mods have been done to your bike compared to mine? What is your average gas mileage now? Please read my message above to Cajunrider.
Thanks. Glenn

[blowndodge]

A little lesson on ethanol.

Ethanol blended fuels will make a motor run leaner obecause the optimum air fuel ratio is more like 6:1 for alcohol as compared to gas which is about 14:1

Ever wonder why Alcohol dragsters are faster than gas? Per BTU gas has more energy than alcohol but since you run alcohol twice as rich as gas to get it to fire, you get more power. If you understand that then you can see running alcohol will substantially reduce your MPG if you need to run it at 6:1.

Adding alcohol to gas and then burning it at essentially "gasoline ratios" will make the bike stumble and run bad and reduce mileage. Alcohol doesn't do well at gas mixture ratios.

One thing that was nice in my drag racing days was when you torn down the top end of an alcohol motor it was surgically clean inside! no petroleum residue.

[phenrichs]

I have to agree on the tfi. I modified my exhaust and afterward had problems. I installed a tfi and not only did it resolve the problem but it runs way better now than it did stock. That is proof to me that macmac is right when he says these things are lean out of the factory.

[redjay]

Debaffled mufflers, 9" K&N air filter. TFI settings 2.45 -5 -1 -8. Around 38mpg.

[Cajunrider]

Originally Posted by claybuster

Cajunrider, what TFI settings did you settle on? What is your average gas mileage now?
Did the colder plug really help when using 93 octane? Are all 4 plugs the same number? My 07 Nomad is totally stock except for the TFI and debaffled mufflers. I'm still using the stock goat belly. This past weekend my wife a I had a 3 day trip, 545 miles and rode the entire length of Skyline Drive in Virginia. I was experiencing very little or no pinging for the first 2 tanks of 93 octane (Sheetz gas and Exxon gas). This was with my TFI settings at 2:45 - 5 - 1 - 9. The next tank of Exxon 93 I had pretty bad pinging again like before installing the TFI. I could make it ping just slowly rolling on the throttle. After riding for 2 hours I stopped and changed my TFI settings to 3 - 6 - 2 - 8:30. I still had a ping, now I'm thinking the Exxon where I filled up last probably had a lower octane gas like 89 or 87 in their 93 octane tank. (I'm sure that happens sometimes, even intentionally because most cars and car drivers won't notice the difference) For the next gas stop I filled up with Shell to try their 93 Super hoping the ping would be eliminated. WRONG... I still have a ping and I know the TFI is working. I saw the lights come on and off and I have a F&S tach on my bike. When I adjusted the 1st pot my RPM's peaked at # 3 on the TFI and the idle was also the smoothest running.
Does anyone have another suggestion? I will try the next colder spark plug to see if that helps but again I could be getting a lower octane gas at the pump then what the tank at the gas station shows. I wish there was a way to check the octane we put in our bikes to confirm what it really is.

Thanks.
Glenn

Glenn, my settings are 3:30, 5:30, 1, and 8:30. It only pings on 87 when pulling the trailer in the hills or climbing steep Mississippi River bridges down here in 5th gear. Barely pings on 89 and I haven't heard it at all on 93. Much better with the TFI than without.

[billmac]

Originally Posted by claybuster

Hi Bill, what TFI settings did you settle on? What mods have been done to your bike compared to mine? What is your average gas mileage now? Please read my message above to Cajunrider.
Thanks. Glenn

trjam & Claybuster, I found my 2007 had the best performance with TFI at 3-6-1-9.

I believe there are many variables to consider. Octane, ambient temperature, and riding style just to name a few. I can reduce my TFI settings on the first two pots in the winter or if I dont mind a slight ping upon hard acceleration.

My post TFI fuel mileage dropped to about 34pmg cruising around town and about 38mpg on the highway. I was getting about 40mpg.

I would start suspecting something is wrong if the ping is still there with high pot settings. I would try some octane booster to see if it helps. But I am wondering if your engine may be running too warm. It sounds like it could still be too lean. I would probably spray some WD 40 around the intake to check for a air leak.

Best of luck.

Bill

[macmac]

Originally Posted by Blowndodge "Darksider"

One thing that was nice in my drag racing days was when you torn down the top end of an alcohol motor it was surgically clean inside! no petroleum residue.

I guess so!!!!

[macmac]

trjam, Typical of a overly lean mix in a bike made by bean counter specs..

What I don't know is Cobra/ TFI settings for a other wise stock set up bike.

To me it apppears as the TFI folks made some change with their TFI, as I can run mine at 0FF on pot 4, but could not on a recent install.

I had no choice to run pot 4 at 4:00 and set it at 9.

I then set pot 3 which still should be variable at the TFI spec.

With out setting pot 4 to at least 4:00 the pots 1 and 2 lights refused to function as normal.

The above was not the case on the installing with my 01 nor' my 06 with earlier TFI set ups.