Fiction or Fact

[rewindgy]

Just got back from Sturgis - friggin hot! Ran inot the Kawasaki Rep's at a Mexican resturant - they were all over my Nomad. Asking lots of questions / touching things / just plain being a pain! Asked me to bring it down to their Test Ride area the next day and I did. Then all of them were checking it out?? Not sure what they were looking for but - what ever. Had a good discussion with the big guy from Kawi and this is all he would say: A) they are dropping 2 bikes for 2009 - wouldn't say which ones but because - B) the 09 Nomad will have a bigger motor and not too much other changes? What ever that is supposd to mean I don't know! C) there will be a new Touring bike! Not a V-twin - and that's all he said! And that's all I could get out of him other than they will release the info in the middle of September and by the end of September it will be splashed all over the Kawi site. End of Report - Fact or Fiction - only time will tell!

[cactusjack]

Wow. They've probably never actually seen somebody riding a Nomad before. :) Interesting, though...

[rlfaubion]

Interesting

You should have told those guys to read KawaNOW if they really want to know what to build.

[samkjr]

I would love a 4 cyl nomad.
Thats why I almost bought the yamaha version. but wife loved this seat so much more.

[cactusjack]

Originally Posted by caddmannq

You should have told those guys to read KawaNOW if they really want to know what to build.

Yep. It makes you wonder who they do their market research with?

I'm sure there's at least one automaker that still builds cars with cassette players, too. I haven't even seen an audio cassette in probably 20 years. I rented a 2005 Dodge a few years ago and it had a cassette player in it.

Do the people who design stuff like motorcycles and cars actually do research to find out what the people who would buy their products actually want? I've always wondered about that. I'm sure they do, considering the money it must cost to develop something like that. But you gotts wonder who they talk to. Have the guys who designed the Nomad seat ever sat on one?

[rlfaubion]

EZ Jack - breathe, breathe brutha

[cactusjack]

Sorry Valdez, I get myself worked up sometimes.

[lomax]

...well, I have read that there are many who would like to see the Nomad with a 2000cc engine (aka v2k). I'm not sure why cause we can go plenty fast with what we have, and, there seems to be some issues with that engine. Guess we will see what they are thinkin' soon!

Originally Posted by cactusjack

...Do the people who design stuff like motorcycles and cars actually do research to find out what the people who would buy their products actually want? I've always wondered about that. I'm sure they do, considering the money it must cost to develop something like that. But you gotts wonder who they talk to....

Remember Werner Heisenberg, who said (roughly speaking) that the measurement always distorts the thing measured.

Did you ever watch Dr. House? His motto is "The patient always lies." presumably because the truth is either too embarrassing or just not good enough to justify their angst.

I think market research is like that. The researchers don't get the right answers because the way the research is conducted causes the subjects to lie (indirectly) about what they really want. They tell the researchers what they'd buy in their dreams rather than in their realities.

The most famous case-in-point was this car: The Edsel.


The Edsel was the most thoroughly market researched product in the history of the world, in its day. In a world of cars already too outlandishly styled for the mass of consumers, it was a dream of the George Jetson-esque future in swoopy chrome and wraparound glass. It was where the forward thinking thought they'd go, but where the down to Earth couldn't afford to be. All the people that swore this was what they wanted bought more ordinary (and economical) Fords instead.

I owned the '59 Edsel in that photo from 1984 to 1990. I was in a position to revive a bit of the dream of that future that was never lived. That car was a winner to me, and it was routinely admired in the 80's; but in the 50's it was a total bust.

When I look at the M109R I see shades of the Edsel. I see it in the Gatling gun headlight of the VN2k. I see it in the "new" Vmax power cruiser. I see it in the Victory Vision. I see stylists trying to relive a future that never was, and missing what motorists revere the most: the era of long gone classics. Vehicles so elegantly pleasing and simple of design that they became icons in their own day and for generations beyond.

This is where the Nomad shines. Sure it misses the mark in some aspects (mostly as a necessary homage to manufacturability, government regulations and economics); but overall it hits so many of the iconic styling cues of the pre-war and early post-war classics and the customs evolving from them that it has created a strong and faithful following for a marque that was quite widely disdained as cheap and second class stuff.

Tons of guys that would rather "push a Harley than ride a Honda" hardly even recognized a Kawasaki; but Kawasaki hit a winner with the Vulcan Classic and the Nomad 1500, and they managed to extend that success through the Nomad 1600 as well. In the cruiser business it was as close to a homer with loaded bases as they'd ever had.

Now they are at the point where a knock-it-out-of-the-park machine is entirely possible for them. In my mind the key is to home in on what they're already doing correctly, round off the rough edges some more, and improve engine efficiency a couple more notches for more power on tap in the real-world road situations. What we want is continuing improvement on an already good design. What we don't want is another Edsel.

Whether they'll drop the ball or put some real wood on it and kiss that ball goodbye remains to be seen, and I don't have the foggiest idea which way it'll go.

[rksaw]

Cadd, well said.

rewindgy, just like you put it, now comes the hard part--hurry up and wait.

[djh]

Cadd, EXCELLENT Post Very well said. You're right The NOMAD shines and if it was up to me
only a few minor improvements would be needed. Such as an electronic cruise control and as you mentioned more responsive power. Without having to modify your bike if you choose not to. Thanks again djh

[slots]

Rewindgy...

Seems strange that Kawa execs would be interested in one of our lowly Nomads.... I actually thought they knew nothing about the cruiser market.... at least the facts seem to show that sad truth...

What a bunch of ignorant dummies.... they have only been offering the product for a decade or more.... sheesh ! When I was a product manager for Ford Motor Company... I woulda been fired on the spot if I was not 150% (or more) familiar with our own products....and all the competition.

Slots
Reno, NV

[trevwales]

On the UK kawasaki website, the only cruisers listed are two vn900's and the vn2000. The Nomad (Classic Tourer) is missing.

[trip]

It's interesting that they did that to you rewindgy......I only wish I could have been there with you.....I've said this in the past.....so here I go again.......

.....one of my goals for KawaNOW is to be a sounding board for Kawasaki on the Nomad. Hopefully, one day Kawasaki might listen to our suggestions, hopes and dreams for the Nomad. We'll see.

I would love to see Kawasaki keep the current 1600 Nomad (with some suggestive modifications), but also develop a 2000 Nomad with the following:

- 2000cc engine (est. 85 or more horses instead of 65 to the rear wheel)
- 6 gal tank
- no belt, only shaft drive
- batwing front fairing
- all electronics, CB, CD, etc.
- trunk, kind of like the Corbin
- And of course, the hard bags
- front riding lights, standard
- last but not least....... a sixth gear or overdrive for better fuel economy

We all want options....don't we?