Tranny rebuild... and more

[mbarr10]

I believe he cuts out parts of the gear so the dogs have a deeper area to engage. Looking at the Pics he posted that is my best guess. But Ray knows.

[RACNRAY]

Originally Posted by redjay

What is the purpose of undercutting the gears, deeper engagement or less of a dog on the gear to engage with the next gear ?

Undercutting is a machining operation that imparts a different angle to the load faces of the engagement dogs and/or slots. Non undercut dogs/slots engage at a 90 dg angle to each other, undercutting alters that angle slightly so the gears have more of chance to "stay engaged" and not jump out.

here is a cobby pic of non undercut and undercut dogs, the angle of the undercut is GROSSLY exaggerated.

RACNRAY

[redjay]

Thanks for the explanation.
Why do manufacturers not do this as part of the normal manufacturing process ?
I don't think it would be anymore expensive, just a different tooling process.

[mbarr10]

Originally Posted by redjay

Thanks for the explanation.
Why do manufacturers not do this as part of the normal manufacturing process ?
I don't think it would be anymore expensive, just a different tooling process.

I must concur, Why don't they do this ??

[Lumberjack]

Here's a better picture and link
https://www.quora.com/What-is-undercutting-in-gear

Probably the biggest reason they don't do this is cost. While it may be better they are not trying to sell the best bike - they are trying profit and would have to pass every improvement to make it better onto the rider which would make the bike too expensive.

[mbarr10]

Ok then.... Here we go. All parts are in, 2 gear is back from Racyn Rays and at the dealer. Assembly has started today. Thinking 2 weeks. We shall see, and it is going to be a long 2 weeks for the wait. It was 60f yesterday, I have the itch to ride real bad.
Transmission, Allballs stem bearings, new Metzler Cruisetech rear tire and by passing my amp since it is broken. I thought why not since the fairing is off. Low sound is better than no sound, for me at least.

[smokier]

Greetings MBarr,

Wishing a speedy and productive recovery for your girl! Hope you are on the streets soon!

Ride safe,
Smokier

[RACNRAY]

Originally Posted by Lumberjack

Here's a better picture and link
https://www.quora.com/What-is-undercutting-in-gear

Probably the biggest reason they don't do this is cost. While it may be better they are not trying to sell the best bike - they are trying profit and would have to pass every improvement to make it better onto the rider which would make the bike too expensive.

Those pics DO NOT represent ANYTHING to do with undercutting motorcycle gears. What they DO show is how TOOTH DESIGN can be altered to reduce friction and decrease noise emanating from the engagement of the teeth. The pics are misleading but are informative in relation to tooth design.

Undercutting m/c gears ONLY involves the machining of the engagement "dogs" and/or "slots" which are located on the SIDES of the gears. My earlier post with the pic is the EXACT representation of stock vs undercut dogs.

RACNRAY

[mbarr10]

image.jpg

Resurrection Continues. Motor and tranny reassembled and re mounted.

[redjay]

Originally Posted by RACNRAY

Those pics DO NOT represent ANYTHING to do with undercutting motorcycle gears. What they DO show is how TOOTH DESIGN can be altered to reduce friction and decrease noise emanating from the engagement of the teeth. The pics are misleading but are informative in relation to tooth design.

Undercutting m/c gears ONLY involves the machining of the engagement "dogs" and/or "slots" which are located on the SIDES of the gears. My earlier post with the pic is the EXACT representation of stock vs undercut dogs.

RACNRAY

As I stated in another thread why do manufacturers not undercut gears as part of the normal manufacturing process of the gears ? Different CNC program and different tooling but same cost to produce ?

[smokier]

Originally Posted by mbarr10

Attachment 15326

Resurrection Continues. Motor and tranny reassembled and re mounted.

Greetings MBarr,

That picture is both sad and offers hope at the same time. Hoping yo are on the road soon.


Ride safe,
Smokier

[mbarr10]

Looking thru my shop manual, not much else to do now. I thought, Hey if they have the front end off to do the steering bearings why not get the fork oil done. Saves a few hours labor since they are off the bike anyway. ( did the same with the tire change, saved 55 bucks in labor) WELL= I was told today the fork seals were bad. So now another 5 days wait for more parts. I mean yes, good to get done but now another week. SERIOUSLY = 4 years old with 11,000 miles and the fork seals are bad?? Not a happy camper here.

Warrantee Stem bearing job, replaced with All Balls at my cost ( parts only) , Fork seals at my cost= a wearable part not covered. New transmission, warrantee work
2016 with 11,000 miles.
I put 45,000 miles and 9 years on my 1500 classic and it only had stem bearings tightened once and a new thermostat sensor replaced. That with tires and brake pads was the only thing I ever replaced. Very disappointed here.
Ok, Very frustrated, quarantined and missing my ride.

Bitching over and out. Thanks for listening.

A full 2 months have passed and it is still not parked at home. ( oops, I was done bitching) My Bad

[mbarr10]

Originally Posted by smokier

Greetings MBarr,

That picture is both sad and offers hope at the same time. Hoping yo are on the road soon.

Ride safe,
Smokier

Soon Brother, and with the RDL for the trip Home. It will be a celebration. Appreciate the thoughts.

[RACNRAY]

BOTH fork seals bad at the same time on such a low mileage skoot is rare, and bad fork seals normally means they leak, and the oil dripping down the sliders would have been noticed. I just did the steering head bearings and changed the fork oil on vindicator6 skoot, his skoot has 33,000 plus miles and the seal were perfect.

Call me skeptical...

BTW...his steering bearings were so bad they had the steering locked in the straight ahead position!!!

RACNRAY

[mbarr10]

With the inverted? shocks, I never noticed any leakage at all. I like to think it would have shown some on the matte finish. But it is what it is, it is out of my hands. It is 50 miles away at a shop I have never used.
Not sure if both seals are bad they just told me the seals needed to be replaced. I was so shocked, I just said, OK how long for the parts. And with all the labor involved- I am only paying for the replacement of the seals since Kawasaki is paying for the removal and reassembly of the forks in the Steering bearing replacement. So my seal replacement is parts and install of the seals in my labor charge.

I do plan on keeping this bike, so any work done now should reduce any long term costs later,..... So I hope.

I do keep in mind City miles take more of a toll on equipment than Freeway miles. Most of my miles are Stop and Go so the wear is more relevant to the use. Keeping in mind the 2nd gear issue was after 8,000 miles and taken in with 11,000 on the clock. ( And they let me send out the gears for undercutting)
Could be I am just a little hard on the bike. I do like to ride to the limits. DAMN FUN THOUGH.

I have never hear of Steering head bearings being bad at 11,000 miles either. (Yet they let me sub All Balls for the cost of parts) No Labor costs. Since they were doing a warrantee replacement of the bearings anyway.

I got a Lemon or I use the bike like it is not the machine I thought it was and or think it is. ????? I really do like how it rides and corners So DAMN FUN TO RIDE. My 1500 Classic had a 30 degree rake, this has a 28 degree and the cornering difference is AWESOME= Compared

No comments on the Ivan Flash either. And no mention of the Grade 8 bolts holding the mufflers on. ( UMMM, I took off the trailer hitch before I dropped it off) But here is the thing. I had the slippage in the tranny before I even had the trailer.