Swapping 1600 into an 03 1500cc Nomad

[colin]

Ok, I think that all makes sense. I'll keep an eye on things as I'm breaking them down, and hearing someone reitterate my correct understanding of piston rings, glaze, and honing gives me a bit of confidence that I'm already on the right track.

Thanks for the advice, and onward I go. :)

[MAS Tequila]

Listen to the 'Fire Breather', she knows what she's talking about.

I would recommend, since you're working with limited equipment, that you take the jugs to a local machine shop to be checked and surfaced.

Have the heads checked and milled a minimal amount.

I would check the heads from both engines and see which set is the best and/or go ahead take them apart and clean up the valve seats and replace the valve seals.

Then you will have a new engine.

Then we can start talking about flowing the heads, polishing the rods, using small block Ford pistons, and on and on and on.

[colin]

Yeah, it's probably a good idea. Although, I can't lie... Unless I see some unusually high wear for 7k miles, it probably won't be going to the machine shop unless it absolutely needs to. I blew both the time and the entire money budget on an engine with a bad transmission, so getting it apart, together, and running reliably with minimal cost to the wallet is the number one goal. Any additional costs being put towards this will likely push it back considerably.

Unfortunately, I'm going to leave the older 1500 engine together until I get through this build. I just have very limited space to undertake this project, so keeping the area I have tidy is a lot easier without the extra stuff. I've got a little project car sitting in pieces on the other side of my 2 car garage, so keeping the two separated can be challenging.

I appreciate the help from everyone. :) I'll check back in when I've made some more progress.

[DragonLady58]

OK, if your gonna do this on the cheap....get a complete set of gaskets, a glaze breaker bottle hone the correct size from your auto parts house, set of rings, but MAS is right, its best to just freshen up your heads with a valve job, at least. If not in the budget, clean your heads good, stuff rags into the intake and exhaust ports.
If its a really low mileage engine, you can use the old rings, but your pistons/rings gotta be immaculate, oil then up good, put them in a good clean box, with lint free rags around them for protection. Do this only if engine has less than 8,000 miles on it. Anymore, go with fresh rings.
Tear everything down, label, clean and store all the parts, especially your rod bearings.
Dissemble your trans, replace all the parts with the least worn ones, and the bent shifter fork.
Follow your manual, keeping everything immaculately clean, take your time and reassemble.
You can do your hone job in a clean 5 ga. bucket, with a couple of clean pieces of wood.
You'll need a slow driven 1/2" drill, use some clean kerosene, take the shiny glaze outta the bores, giving the cylinders a nice cross-hatch pattern as the book shows. IMMEDIATELTY AFTER WASHING, dry everything with a rag, then oil down the bores. They will start rusting almost instantly if not. Main thing is to get the 'lapping compound' out of the bores from that bottle hone,
Me, Myself, I normally wash the bores 3 times with hot, soapy water. I also scrub the outside of the jugs, so I can touchup the paint, too. Then, I wash down with brake cleaner to get all the honing slop out of everything, THEN, I oil down the bores,and gasket surfaces. I then wipe down,again, if it passes inspection, I tape up the gasket surfaces, so I can spray paint.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, get a good friend that knows how to hone a auto block out to do it, they'll know how....
After your hone job, wash your jugs down with hot soapy water until you can wipe the bore down with a white rag and see no trace of black stuff on the rag. Oil and store your jugs in a clean box.
Clean and carefully reassemble, following your book exactly, everything should be fine and you will now essentially have a brand new engine/trans....

[colin]

I'm definitely going to break the glaze and go with new rings, as I know that has some pretty good potential for plaguing me with low compression for the remaining life of the engine. I've rehoned cylinders before, so I don't think that should be a big deal. I'll also examine the heads before I bring them in, if I do. It's a pretty low mileage engine, so I'll check to see how the valves are seated and sealing, and if needed I'll lap them initially. If they don't pass the iso-alcohol test (some people use gasoline), or if they look pitted or scarred, I'll take them in. At least that's the initial plan.

I was looking at the rod bearings on partzilla, which I'll likely replace, and noticed that there's "brown", "black", and "blue" options. How am I to know which ones to order, or will that be obvious once I've gotten the thing ripped apart? It didn't seem obvious at all from the exploded parts diagram. :/

[DragonLady58]

Look on top of piston for deposites, carefully get off. Look underside, most of the time its on top, sometimes its under the top on pin bosses, but if theres no 010,020,030, etc, its the std. size piston.
If its 010, then you have to order rings that size. Make sure your bore is round and not tapered. MAS and I, other mechanics here have Nice accurate ID Mics to measure the bore, also OD Mics for pistons. BUT, the MFG'ers in the OEM and Aftermarket now mark all their pistons. Some just stamp them in stupid places....
Also, don't assume anything on the inside of a engine. Make sure both the pistons the same. I've seen a couple of engines that were in bikes that have not ever been opened up from the factory with slightly oversize slugs....so even frack-ups at the factory occur on down the assembly lines....

[colin]

The pistons I should be able to figure out. It was more the rod bearings. I called my local shop, and they said it was cool to bring in the crank so they could measure it appropriately for the right size of bearings. Otherwise they didn't know what to tell me. In the parts diagram they list 3 different part numbers (blue, black, brown), but don't list the sizes. :/ They couldn't even tell me which the stock bearings were. :/

[MAS Tequila]

It's not necessary to remove the rods from the crank.

If there doesn't appear to be any issues, I would leave them as is.

Those are already worn in and seated together, why mess with it.

Rings, I've put low mileage engines back together if the cylinders are in good shape.

Just keep the rings on the pistons until you check the bores.

It needs a new shift fork, reuse as much as possible to save some dollars for the mods you're gonna want to do.

[DragonLady58]

When you disassemble your engine, look at the numbers on the back of the bearing shells. I've just done it so long, I just grab my mics and start measuring stuff. Bearing shell clamped In side Diameter - the rods big end clearance= the crankshaft pin diameter....
There's a chart in your factory manual that shows the color decimal equivalent....better yet, just take your crank to your machine shop....I slightly chamfer the oil feed holes on the journal, and I have the crank micropolished, I also have the crank side thrust face clearance opened up by .0008-.001, to allow more oil to flow, keeping the rod big end cooler....

[colin]

Ok, called the stealership, the guy in the service dept I talked to said it could be any of those 3 bearings, and we wouldn't know until the crank was measured to know exactly which ones they are. SO... under his suggestion, he said... "You don't HAVE to do this, but it's what I would do if time was an issue. Order all 3 sizes, and return the ones you don't need. (Unopened of course)." So, that's what I'll do.

The guy at Lynnwood Motoplex (local dealership) said bring in the crank, bearing, and rods if desired, and he'd help me match them up. So, all that being said, I think I'm on the right track. I should be able to get the spark plug tubes out tonight, which will allow me to break down the remaining portion of the cylinders. I won't be able to work on it tomorrow (poker night), but Thursday and Friday I should be able to disassemble the remaining portion, allowing me to do the majority of the actual "work" this weekend.

This has all been great so far, so thanks again. I'll be back soon after breaking the motor down a little more.

[colin]

Ok, so got both cylinders off, and things look good. I've run into one thing I'd like advice on. The first cylinder I removed (rear) came off perfect. The second (front) went as well, however, as I removed the cylinder, the piston released, rocked forward, making contact with that damn stud in front of the cylinder (link to picture posted below). It made a tiny horizontal scratch on the side of the piston. Do I need to worry about this? In the picture, it's right below the flash burned area, which actually makes it really stand out. Should I take it to a machine shop to have it taken out? It's about 1mm wide.

What I've read is that it's technically a divot, and that I should basically take off any microscopic high spots, and then leave it alone. Does that sound about right?

Sorry - dumb question, but don't want it to come back to bite me. The other thing I was thinking about, is that piston itself really shouldn't be touching the cylinder walls - the rings should. That being the case, should I even worry about it?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1WKbD1zychmRxw2g2

[colin]

After examining it further it looks like it'll be fine. Nothing raised on the surface. I took a single horizontal swipe across it with 600 grit just to ensure there was nothing I couldn't see that was raised. Being that the rings make the seal and not the pistons, it should be fine.

[DragonLady58]

Well, a small scratch on the piston skirt won't hurt anything, as long as there are no 'hi' spots. Carefully use a piece of emery paper, bring the high spot down to the level of the rest of the piston skirt.
I don't do Facebook or Google Photos, I get spammed enough without all that other crap....Let MAS look at it. When you pull your jugs off....its best to be at TDC or BDC, I like TDC, as I pull the jug up some, I wrap several rags around connecting rod, sliding them slightly into barrell hole in the case, holding the rod centered. I then do the rear cylinder....
I do it a certain way all the time, your less likely to make a mistake or mess something up.
Use your camera phone for alot of photos. If something looks or feels complicated, take pics with phone. They are great for reference....
If my customers can't be there during a teardown, I snap a ton of stuff, that way they can see what went wrong with their engine....

[colin]

Ok, cool. I really had to try to even hook my fingernail on it, which I can, but it's tough as it's REALLY shallow. I'll do the deed with the emery paper though. I assumed it would likely be fine, but I just wanted to be sure before starting the reassembly (probably next week), only to find that I made a mistake in doing so.

Yeah, the first cylinder I removed, I actually wrapped the rear stud in a microfiber rag, which worked good, as I anticipated the piston rocking forward after it was pulled out of the cylinder. The 2nd one though, I forgot about completely having had a good experience with the first, and when I heard that piston make contact with the stud, the only thing I could think of was "of course...".

If this "soft" rebuild, as I'll refer to it, goes good, I'll likely start rebuilding the original engine (1500) shortly thereafter, but I'm trying to learn as much as I can hopefully the first go around. Needless to say you're all helping me fill in the gaps of the info that I'm missing, so again, I greatly appreciate the info and the patience in responding.

[DragonLady58]

Well thats what we're here for to give back to the community that helped us (me) make a living all those years.
If I'm outta pocket, MAS, and others that really good wrenches will help ya along thru the rebuild.
Just pay attention to detail, read your manual, and take your time....all should be good....
Let us know when we can help....