Your experience on mileage for "pure" gas

Old Bear · 02-12-2013, 10:53 AM

So I got my Vaquero last mid-summer. Started off using Premium with alcohol. After break-in I changed to Mid-Grade, still with alcohol. Then I discovered a nearby station that has "pure" Premium and Mid-Grade. I started using the pure Mid-Grade, expecting an increase in mileage, but really didn't notice any. My past couple of tanks was on pure Regular from another station on the way to work, but I'm still not noticing any increase in mileage. I haven't noticed any pinging so far, which of course is good. I am puzzled about the mileage though. When I fill up the car with pure gas, I see a noticeable increase in mileage. Not enough to justify the price difference, but close.

Do I have to have a tuner to see a change? I see no other reason to run pure gas if I'm not getting better mileage. Without that, I might as well try out Regular with alcohol and see what happens, which will be the cheapest option. Is this your experience as well? Not looking for a flame war on brands or octane or whatever, just trying to learn from others experience.

**Jared** · 02-12-2013, 11:20 AM

Fuel economy on motorcycles can very a lot from tank to tank. I feel like my riding style is fairly ritual. I'm not making any drastic changes from one ride to another, but have gotten as much as 56 mpg and as low as 28 mpg. I track every fill up and document it on a spread sheet. You read that right, every single fill up. I have documented over 50K miles worth of tanks of gas on three different Nomads and notice fuel economy bouncing all over the place.

So, that being said, it's really hard to tell if it's made a difference with just one or two tanks of gas.
I would think you'd need to track it for at least a thousand miles, perhaps more, to tell if there's been any direct changes.

**nomadtom69** · 02-12-2013, 11:25 AM

Not to mention the damage that is caused by Ethanol since you are riding all the time you might not see it but for those who are not riding everyday without a treatment the 10% will eat up rubber gaskets a friend of mine works on small engines and sees it all the time real gas is better just for that reason

Sin City Stan · 02-12-2013, 11:35 AM

I have always gotten better mileage with "pure" gas. The Physics involved are straight forward. Ethanol has less BTUs per gallon than gasoline. "Pure" gas contains about 3.5% more BTUs per gallon than E90. BTUs represent the amount of energy you have available. More BTUs mean more energy. It takes energy to move your bike. "Pure" gas has 3.5% more energy than E90. So a gallon of "pure" gas will take you 3.5% farther than a gallon of E90.

For instance if you get 35 MGP with E90, under the same conditions you will get a little over 37 MPG with "pure" gas. [35 x 1.035]

blowndodge · 02-12-2013, 11:54 AM

Very good Stan! Now for the quiz:

Why are alcohol burning race cars faster than gas cars if the BTU's are lower??? Bonus points awarded if not "googled".

Sin City Stan · 02-12-2013, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blowndodge

Very good Stan! Now for the quiz:

Why are alcohol burning race cars faster than gas cars if the BTU's are lower??? Bonus points awarded if not "googled".

Don't need Google for this. It's allot higher octane. You increase the compression and advance the ignition to crazy levels.

waterman · 02-12-2013, 03:46 PM

Stan,

It's not just that. Alcohol evaporates quicker and has more of a cooling effect. Cooling means more air in the same volume as it is denser. Engines will run cooler on the track and will increase hp and torque.

blowndodge · 02-12-2013, 04:11 PM

You both have answered "ancillary" results that are minimal at best! Therefore INCORRECT!! BONG!!!!

Old Bear · 02-12-2013, 04:18 PM

Thanks guys! I was also considering the other "bad" things alcohol brings to the table. One would think that the manufacturers, knowing what most folks are putting in the tank, would use components better suited for that fuel. And I should also be wealthy and much better looking, see how that turned out ...

waterman · 02-12-2013, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blowndodge

You both have answered "ancillary" results that are minimal at best! Therefore INCORRECT!! BONG!!!!

Ok MR Gadget, what is the correct answer?

dank · 02-12-2013, 04:36 PM

Alcohol and nitrous both bring oxygen to the party with them. You can get denser fuel packing in the cylinder even though they each actually have lower energy per unit volume outside the engine. Better living through chemistry.

But that has nothing to do with MPG changes in using ethanol and non ethanol fuel in a nomad.

blowndodge · 02-12-2013, 04:57 PM

Drop for drop Gas contains more BTU's Gas needs to burn at a mixture of 14:1 for efficiency

Alcohol nees to burn at 7:1 or twice as much fuel. Whatever alcohol loses in BTU's is made up by being able to burn twice as much.

This is why alcohol engines get terrible mileage and why you don't sit and "blip" the throttle on a methanol motor. It will put the flame out and flood the engine.

Duff · 02-12-2013, 05:48 PM

You can follow my mileage here.
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/duff8402/vn1700-vaqeuro

99% of the time I run 100% 87 Octane, unless I'm road tripping and can't find 100%

Duff · 02-12-2013, 05:49 PM

And yes, something logged incorrectly on that 59mpg run, I'm quite sure...

**Top Cat** · 02-12-2013, 06:45 PM

non ethanol gas is not worth the extra expense just to get a couple more mpgs.
I have an 07 with 87,000 miles on it and get 42 mpg consistently on 10 percent ethanol. Never had a problem with seals either.

02-12-2013, 10:53 AM	#1
Old Bear Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Clarksville, TN Posts: 1,434	Your experience on mileage for "pure" gas So I got my Vaquero last mid-summer. Started off using Premium with alcohol. After break-in I changed to Mid-Grade, still with alcohol. Then I discovered a nearby station that has "pure" Premium and Mid-Grade. I started using the pure Mid-Grade, expecting an increase in mileage, but really didn't notice any. My past couple of tanks was on pure Regular from another station on the way to work, but I'm still not noticing any increase in mileage. I haven't noticed any pinging so far, which of course is good. I am puzzled about the mileage though. When I fill up the car with pure gas, I see a noticeable increase in mileage. Not enough to justify the price difference, but close. Do I have to have a tuner to see a change? I see no other reason to run pure gas if I'm not getting better mileage. Without that, I might as well try out Regular with alcohol and see what happens, which will be the cheapest option. Is this your experience as well? Not looking for a flame war on brands or octane or whatever, just trying to learn from others experience. __________________ Jerry "Old Bear" Barker Clarksville, TN Americas Guardians PS MC President, Tennessee 16-A VBA #02203 "Blaze" 2017 Vaquero "Black Magic" 2011 Vaquero, 69k miles, handed down to my son for hopefully many more miles! Login or Register to Remove Ads
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02-12-2013, 11:20 AM	#2
Jared Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Greeley, Colorado Posts: 6,772	Fuel economy on motorcycles can very a lot from tank to tank. I feel like my riding style is fairly ritual. I'm not making any drastic changes from one ride to another, but have gotten as much as 56 mpg and as low as 28 mpg. I track every fill up and document it on a spread sheet. You read that right, every single fill up. I have documented over 50K miles worth of tanks of gas on three different Nomads and notice fuel economy bouncing all over the place. So, that being said, it's really hard to tell if it's made a difference with just one or two tanks of gas. I would think you'd need to track it for at least a thousand miles, perhaps more, to tell if there's been any direct changes. __________________ Jared VBA #1051 (Former President)
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02-12-2013, 11:25 AM	#3
nomadtom69 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Maryville, Tn Posts: 2,656	Not to mention the damage that is caused by Ethanol since you are riding all the time you might not see it but for those who are not riding everyday without a treatment the 10% will eat up rubber gaskets a friend of mine works on small engines and sees it all the time real gas is better just for that reason __________________ (NomadTom69)Tom Green Previous bikes - 2004 BMW R1200 CLC 2006 Nomad 1600 Black -1985 BMW K100 RT VBA #001609 Viet-Nam Vet 71-72 Maryville , Tn. Maggie Valley '11-Townsend '12-Estes Park '13- Copperhead fall rally "13- Elkins WV '14- Eureka Springs ' 15- Helen Ga. SE Rally '16
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02-12-2013, 11:35 AM	#4
Sin City Stan Sr. Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Henderson, NV Posts: 3,746	I have always gotten better mileage with "pure" gas. The Physics involved are straight forward. Ethanol has less BTUs per gallon than gasoline. "Pure" gas contains about 3.5% more BTUs per gallon than E90. BTUs represent the amount of energy you have available. More BTUs mean more energy. It takes energy to move your bike. "Pure" gas has 3.5% more energy than E90. So a gallon of "pure" gas will take you 3.5% farther than a gallon of E90. For instance if you get 35 MGP with E90, under the same conditions you will get a little over 37 MPG with "pure" gas. [35 x 1.035] __________________ Oldest Saloon In Nevada http://www.pioneersaloon.info/ "Sin City Stan" Henderson, NV VBA #01004 VROC #29365 2004 Nomad 1500L5 +100 "The Bike" 2009 Nomad 1700 (past) 2004 Vulcan Classic 800 (past) 2010 Cortez - 2011 Crescent City - 2012 Kanab - 2013 Estes Park
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02-12-2013, 11:54 AM	#5
blowndodge Sr. Contributor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington City, Utah Posts: 16,474	Very good Stan! Now for the quiz: Why are alcohol burning race cars faster than gas cars if the BTU's are lower??? Bonus points awarded if not "googled". __________________ I love my Victory Cross Country Tour 106. Smells like Victory! Ultra's are Limited There are two types of Harley riders. Those that trailer them and those that push them. The most Interesting Man in the World "Find the things in life you don't do well and don't do those things" Member # 0005 Login or Register to Remove Ads
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02-12-2013, 03:46 PM	#7
waterman Top Contributor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 6,530	Stan, It's not just that. Alcohol evaporates quicker and has more of a cooling effect. Cooling means more air in the same volume as it is denser. Engines will run cooler on the track and will increase hp and torque. __________________ Joel "Waterman" 2017 HD Road Glide Ultra 2006 Nomad - Sold VBA 213 VROC 16913 Custer 09: Cortez 10: Crescent City 11: Kanab 12: Estes Park 13: Tahoe 14: Red Lodge 16
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02-12-2013, 04:11 PM	#8
blowndodge Sr. Contributor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington City, Utah Posts: 16,474	You both have answered "ancillary" results that are minimal at best! Therefore INCORRECT!! BONG!!!! __________________ I love my Victory Cross Country Tour 106. Smells like Victory! Ultra's are Limited There are two types of Harley riders. Those that trailer them and those that push them. The most Interesting Man in the World "Find the things in life you don't do well and don't do those things" Member # 0005
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02-12-2013, 04:18 PM	#9
Old Bear Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Clarksville, TN Posts: 1,434	Thanks guys! I was also considering the other "bad" things alcohol brings to the table. One would think that the manufacturers, knowing what most folks are putting in the tank, would use components better suited for that fuel. And I should also be wealthy and much better looking, see how that turned out ... __________________ Jerry "Old Bear" Barker Clarksville, TN Americas Guardians PS MC President, Tennessee 16-A VBA #02203 "Blaze" 2017 Vaquero "Black Magic" 2011 Vaquero, 69k miles, handed down to my son for hopefully many more miles!
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02-12-2013, 04:36 PM	#11
dank Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,595	Alcohol and nitrous both bring oxygen to the party with them. You can get denser fuel packing in the cylinder even though they each actually have lower energy per unit volume outside the engine. Better living through chemistry. But that has nothing to do with MPG changes in using ethanol and non ethanol fuel in a nomad. __________________ Dan K Member #100 2009 ST1300: Performance exceeding even Victory riders' boasts.
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02-12-2013, 04:57 PM	#12
blowndodge Sr. Contributor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Washington City, Utah Posts: 16,474	Drop for drop Gas contains more BTU's Gas needs to burn at a mixture of 14:1 for efficiency Alcohol nees to burn at 7:1 or twice as much fuel. Whatever alcohol loses in BTU's is made up by being able to burn twice as much. This is why alcohol engines get terrible mileage and why you don't sit and "blip" the throttle on a methanol motor. It will put the flame out and flood the engine. __________________ I love my Victory Cross Country Tour 106. Smells like Victory! Ultra's are Limited There are two types of Harley riders. Those that trailer them and those that push them. The most Interesting Man in the World "Find the things in life you don't do well and don't do those things" Member # 0005
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02-12-2013, 05:48 PM	#13
Duff Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 200	You can follow my mileage here. http://www.fuelly.com/driver/duff8402/vn1700-vaqeuro 99% of the time I run 100% 87 Octane, unless I'm road tripping and can't find 100% __________________ Duff - 2011 Vaquero Bethany, OK VBA# 02099 Downed Bikers Association#1063
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02-12-2013, 05:49 PM	#14
Duff Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 200	And yes, something logged incorrectly on that 59mpg run, I'm quite sure... __________________ Duff - 2011 Vaquero Bethany, OK VBA# 02099 Downed Bikers Association#1063
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02-12-2013, 06:45 PM	#15
Top Cat Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Peoples Republic of New York State Posts: 15,154	non ethanol gas is not worth the extra expense just to get a couple more mpgs. I have an 07 with 87,000 miles on it and get 42 mpg consistently on 10 percent ethanol. Never had a problem with seals either. __________________ Tim "TC" Conley VBA #9 2011 Victory Kingpin mine 2013 Victory Boardwalk -hers [LEFT][COLOR=#000000] [SIZE=4]
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