Ivan's ECU flash - Updated

[telejojo]

My 09 Nomad has been missing and surging when it's cold but after it warms up it's fine.Also I will get the fuel error message but when I turn it off and crank it back up it goes away.Will this ecu flash take care of these problems?

[redjay]

Call Ivan ?

http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/index.htm

[MrMikey]

I'm probably going to get draw and quartered for saying this but here goes. I removed Ivans flashed ECU (that has the latest flash) and replaced it with the original ECU from the bike.
I couldn't stand the slow speed jerking. It made the bike uncomfortable to drive at slow speeds, while entering and going thru a roundabout, turning into a driveway from slow in first or second etc. I do miss the power and oomph at highway speed but to me the slow speed jerking made it not fun.
I despise being the odd man out but so be it. It's all about me :-)...................Mike

[redjay]

So when you went back to a stock ECU did the problems go away ?

[MrMikey]

So when you went back to a stock ECU did the problems go away ?

Unfortunately yes. I say unfortunately because it (the flashed ECU) made an improvement in the power but at expense of the driveability at low speed.....Mike

[redjay]

Did you discuss the drivability issue with Ivan ? If so what was his response ?

[MrMikey]

Did you discuss the drivability issue with Ivan ? If so what was his response ?

No I didn't, never even thought to actually. I wanted to change it and see if it was something else.
No one else has mentioned it, so by that, I'd say it was something unique to my ride. I figured it was my problem, not Ivans......Mike

[Snake Ranch]

Just my 2 cents.

I had that same slow speed jerking prior to the re-flash, it was like whiplash bad. After the re-flash I still had some. But not as bad.

The re-flash eliminated the fuel cut problem which I could not control. But there are other factors that I could.

#1 Throttle cable adjustment needs to be correct, minimal slack. Racnray on this forem has a good procedure for taking care of this issue.

#2 Check the clearance between the throttle grip and the handle bar. On my skoot there is approx. .030". I wrapped some black electrical tape around the handle bar, one layer, and this took up most of the slop between the two parts.

What was happening was the cables were being pulled enough to influence the ECU input to the throttle plates. So under the right conditions I was getting unwanted throttle input to the ECU no matter how the cables were adjusted.

#3 The transmission gears have what is called backlash, clearance between the gear teeth and between the shafts and gears. Its the nature of the beast, the way manufacturing makes them. All power train components have this.

I learned that going into the friction zone for a second will soften this issue. You slip your clutch as much when taking off from a dead start, so I don't think you are going to hurt any thing. Just takes a little practice.

And this is the biggest factor for the herky jerkies.

#4 Make sure you don't have any intake leaks after the throttle plates.

I hope this helps, food for thought.

[MrMikey]

Thanks for the reply SR.

I had that same slow speed jerking prior to the re-flash, it was like whiplash bad. After the re-flash I still had some. But not as bad.

I've got the latest flash and yes like whiplash. It must have looked like someone not used to a standard (not that I give a rats ass about looks :-) )

#1 Throttle cable adjustment needs to be correct, minimal slack. Racnray on this forem has a good procedure for taking care of this issue.

On a suggestion from Kurt, I took the throttle cables completely off the bar end and took the throttle body cover off the right side so I could see what was going on and flushed them out with WD-40. Got a lot of crap out.
The bar end was also coated with something sticky so I cleaned that off and put a couple drops of light oil on the bar end before reinstalling the grip and cables. Made a big difference on the ease of movement of the cables but none on the jerking motion.
I've adjusted the cables to all possible positions, factory, loose, tight, in between with no change, other than what I've caused by too slack or tight cables :-)
Also cleaned the throttle body while I was at it even tho it wasn't dirty.

#2 Check the clearance between the throttle grip and the handle bar. On my skoot there is approx. .030". I wrapped some black electrical tape around the handle bar, one layer, and this took up most of the slop between the two parts.

I never miked it but there is minimal clearance from the grip to the bar, no slop nor any binding.
As for using electrical tape, I'd be worried about heat causing it to gum up?

What was happening was the cables were being pulled enough to influence the ECU input to the throttle plates. So under the right conditions I was getting unwanted throttle input to the ECU no matter how the cables were adjusted.

I can see that happening. But when i was trying to diagnose the problem, I moved the grip, or at least tried to, without rotating it and there was no corresponding difference in the rpm. I also tried it at all positions of the bars with no difference.

#3 The transmission gears have what is called backlash, clearance between the gear teeth and between the shafts and gears. Its the nature of the beast, the way manufacturing makes them. All power train components have this.

I learned that going into the friction zone for a second will soften this issue. You slip your clutch as much when taking off from a dead start, so I don't think you are going to hurt any thing. Just takes a little practice.

And this is the biggest factor for the herky jerkies.

Yup, aware of backlash working around machinery most of my life. This is not backlash as I feel it would be a more...'solid mechanical klunk' rather than a hesitation.
For lack of a better description, it's almost like an old carbureted engine with a bad accelerator pump.

#4 Make sure you don't have any intake leaks after the throttle plates.

Sprayed WD-40 around while it was running listening for an increase in RPM without success.

I hope this helps, food for thought.

I appreciate the time and your input SR..........Mike

[mbarr10]

Well, Glad to know you kept the spare ECU. You Happy, we Happy. Safety first and it starts with your confidence level.


I still have the Rays mod on my throttle and it is very touchy throttle response. My jerkiness is around 2,000 rpms but I have caught myself using the clutch in corners then letting off at the apex to accelerate. Hardly notice any jerkiness now. I run it mostly around 2500 rpms. Seems to smooth it out, but I still use the friction zones in slow cornering to off set any jerkiness.
Been doing it so long I had to think about how I do it. The small nuances I use to make it smooth.

[smokier]

MrMikey, do you happen to have the RacinRay throttle mod? The wife's VAQ does have this and mine does not. The Racn Ray throttle mod puts a little extra pull or preload on the throttle cable, prefeeding input into the ECU. On the wife's bike, what you are describing is way more apparent than on mine, I have attributed this to the throttle mod. (What MBarr said)
SnakeRanch's 4th point of leaks around the throttle body would also be of interest.

Short version IMHO, you have something ELSE going on. As I recall, when you FIRST put on the IVAN ECU you had less than desired observations. I wonder if there is throttle mod you aren't aware of or a leak, or ???.

Finally, call Ivan.

[MrMikey]

hey Smokier

MrMikey, do you happen to have the RacinRay throttle mod?

Nope, stock factory other than aftermarket grips

SnakeRanch's 4th point of leaks around the throttle body would also be of interest.

Thought of that too, sprayed some WD-40 around any area that could have a seal that might have gone bad with no change in RPM.

Short version IMHO, you have something ELSE going on.

Not discounting that possibility but I'm thinking with the return to no jerky throttle after replacing the ECU with stock, that would pretty much confirm it's the ECU. Or rather than saying it's the ECU, it's the ECU with my rig specifically.

As I recall, when you FIRST put on the IVAN ECU you had less than desired observations

.
You are correct, I'm thinking I was more impressed with the extra power and I got over my negative impressions, now It's starting to bug me LOL.

I wonder if there is throttle mod you aren't aware of or a leak, or ???.

There's no visible mods to the throttle, I did a thorough search for any kind of a leak. Maybe I'm just ...I dunno....fussier, not as experienced, less forgiving or hell, just being an a$$hole LOL............Mike

Finally, call Ivan

[Kopperhed]

On it's way...........

[Kopperhed]

Done....... love the throttle feel, off-on glitchiness gone..... still kicking my self for not doing it sooner. Thanks Ivan.

[smokier]

Originally Posted by Kopperhed

Done....... love the throttle feel, off-on glitchiness gone..... still kicking my self for not doing it sooner. Thanks Ivan.

Agreed; glad you got 'er done and glad you are happy!

Ride safe,
Smokier