Counter-steering part II

[dantama]

There was some confusion on the last counter-steering discussion about whether is was one handle bar input, or two that made counter-steering happen. So I made a video to prove that it was only one handle bar input.

In this video I prove that it is only one handle bar input. I let go of the bar completely with my left hand and put it down on my leg. With my right hand, I raise all my fingers and thumb off the grip making it so I can only push the bar. No way to push and pull. I can only push, and only push on one side.

There is absolutely no way to do two different inputs. But because of the front end geometry it goes initially one way, then the other with only one input to the bars.

It's counter intuitive that it could turn two different directions with the same input, but I wanted to convince any doubters so I made the video.

[dogdoc]

Good info Dan, thx, I do this counter steering everyday but its auto now.

[paul]

Funny you bring this up. Since our last little discussion, I've been practicing and experimenting w/ countersteer. Man, was I surprised. A little input produces a lot of result, especially at speed. I'm working at making it intuative and not something that I have to think about. Proper use makes the twisties a lot more managable and easier to negotiate. It really seems to smooth out the ride and give a sense of better control.

I believe, with enough input, it wouldn't be too difficult to slam the bike down. Great stuff to know. Great topic. Helped open my eyes to a whole other way to ride and glide.

[Top Cat]

OK, correct me if I'm wrong, if you are riding a motorcycle faster than parking lot speeds, you are counter steering whether you know it or not. That is the only way a bike will turn atspeed isin't it?

[paul]

Originally Posted by Top Cat (TC)

OK, correct me if I'm wrong, if you are riding a motorcycle faster than parking lot speeds, you are counter steering whether you know it or not. That is the only way a bike will turn atspeed isin't it?

I'm absolutely not the expert here, but, yeah. I would say any turn is basicly and technicly countersteering. What I discovered when I worked at it is that I was just leaning the bike to steer and corner and countersteer became a by-product. But now I push the bar in the oposite direction of the turn and the bike just falls right over almost with no effort. I get greater results with less effort. And I am steering with a smaller rudder.?

[mercianbike]

I've only been riding for three years and during the discussion of counter-steering in the MSF class, I simply could not comprehend the physics involved. But my bike always went where I wanted it to and I didn't give it much more thought. Then, just a few weeks ago, I was riding one of the many twisty roads we have here in Northern Virginia and as I was going around a tight left turn, I suddenly realized I was PUSHING on the left grip and the more I pushed, the tighter the turn became. This was counter-steering!! I think it's kind of like breathing; it's one of those things you do without consciously thinking about it.

[dantama]

You guys are right, anything over a jogging speed is counter-steering whether you know it or not. There is no other way to turn a bike above that speed. There is no choice between one way and another way. It is all counter-steering.

I was surprises to find others that didn't know that there was only one way, but from a safety board that I used to post on, there was plenty of misinformation and myth out there on how to steer.

Many people thought that you lean your upper body to steer. The fact that they got anywhere at all surprised me. Apparently they accomplished counter-steering by tying one thing, and then counter-steering accidentally happened as a by product of what they were doing. All the guys who did a biker myth way of steering found like hmsregalnadness that it became much easier when the accomplished it directly and knowingly.

When a bicycle gets above a certain speed, it also counter-steers, so when I started riding a motorcycle at about 12 years old, I just did what I did intuitively on a pedal bike and everything worked just as I expected. I tried to teach a not very mechanically inclined older brother to ride my motorcycle and it kept going the opposite way he wanted. I had to reach around and get us steered and stopped. It wasn't intuitive for him at all.

For those that it is completely intuitive, great- riding is easy. For those that it isn't so intuitive, it needs to be learned and thought about. But knowing how it works, and doing it consciously beats the hell out of accidentally accomplishing it as a byproduct of some leaning biker myth.

So to be clear, the only way a bike turns above jogging speed is through counter-steering. And just as the video shows, one input to the bars will cause the slight out racking, then turning in the opposite direction; and it is all from one input. You do not steer one direction, then the other. It is all one direction.

[skimo]

We naturally counter-steer but just don't know it, as it's all ready been said. I think most folks just don't think about it or study it as much as Dan or others. It just happens. So if the rider doesn't think about it, how does it occur? Well you look straight you go straight, look to the left you go left, look to the right and you go right. Basic stuff like look through the turn, look to were you want to go. Something about the turning of the head makes us favor the side being looked too. We lean or push on the bar to the side we are looking and most riders are not really aware of this phenomenon.

Now Dan is truly aware of his counter-steering skills. In the video Dan uses counter steering but his focus is on the video camera and not were the bike is going. He making a deliberate effort to counter steer making the bike go to the right even though he has target fixation on the video camera. Some of us have to look were we need to go, if we get fixed we'll steer straight to it.