Dare I say c-l-u-t-c-h

mrtelefoneman1 · 06-13-2017, 12:58 AM

I know....another clutch thread but I need help. So I picked up an 01 FI from an OO with 25k. He says the clutch began to slip and he took it to a Kaw dealer. The receipt showed a MS spring and plates were installed. When I test rode it, I noticed it disengaged very late but no slipping. Got home and rode 20 or so miles and noticed it starting to slip at roll on. Got home and shut it off, restarted a few min later to get into garage and it wouldn't budge. After cool down it was fine until it heated up again. It started slipping again today on the way home from work.

I'm thinking, either the shop didn't do the work that they claimed, although the clutch is stronger than that on my 03, oil is not correct or is in need of changing, plates are dirty, etc.

I'm thinking of getting a MS spring and Judges and doing it myself.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Oh yeah....why does it disengage so late?

DragonLady58 · 06-13-2017, 03:16 AM

Well, If they did replace the spring....and the plates, could be the other owner put the wrong oil in it. Its worth a try to change it out, but to actually get all the old oil outta the friction plates, you'll have to get her hot, and change the oil several times....some oils are not made for wet clutch bikes and have friction modifiers, and will cause exactly what your describing.
If it were a weak spring, its best to go to the MS spring + the judge washers....All else being good, you'll have plenty of clutch.
If the igmo ran non-wet clutch oil, you might've glazed the plates.
I'd just open her up, and straighten it out with the MS spring + judge washers, mic the plates to make sure they put the right ones in....yes, you can get them in diff. thicknesses.... Having the correct thickness plates will put you clutch handle where it should be.
While you have it apart, look at your clutch discs, if not much wear, clean them with some brake cleaner, lightly of course. Make sure your metal discs haven't blued, clean them good.
All the spec's will be in your repair manual.....
Be doubly sure to put your clutch rod in the correct way also....

**MAS Tequila** · 06-13-2017, 05:50 AM

Check the fluid in the clutch reservoir.

I've seen that happen before where, when it get's hot it flashes, then the clutch doesn't work because the slave cylinder can't push the clutch rod far enough.

The first reaction is to blame the clutch.

I think Trip had this happen a few years ago.

You're not going to want to hear this, but it's usually a sign of the front bevel gear bearing heating up.

Start by checking and/or changing the clutch fluid.

Good luck with the 'new' scoot.

**vulcanscott** · 06-13-2017, 06:51 AM

Also when changing the clutch fluid make sure the return hole is clear it may be building up pressure as you ride and keeping the clutch released . any way start with above since the bike is new to you change the oil flush the clutch system paying attention to return hole and you may not have a problem .

DragonLady58 · 06-13-2017, 12:18 PM

Your bike being a 01', I'd check out MAS's thoughts 1st.....god only knows when the fluids ever been changed, if ever....then if no satisfaction, open her up and start putting things together correctly....

mrtelefoneman1 · 06-13-2017, 06:49 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions. Just knew i would get some good advice. I have a couple days off coming up to figure it out. Ill keep you informed. Thanks again.

gillisfire · 06-13-2017, 09:08 PM

Something to try when your bike is "heated up" and the clutch stops working. Take a wrench and quickly loosen and re-tighten the Banjo bolt that connects the clutch line to your master cylinder. What this does is it relieves the pressure built up in your clutch line, and will allow the clutch to operate correctly again until the pressure builds up again from use. If this works and your clutch is useable again, then the problem is that the master cylinder needs to be rebuilt. The plunger in the M.C. most likely has a small tare in it and is not creating enough of a suction to pull the fluids back from the slave cylinder. So it will seem that as your bike "cools", your clutch will cool off and function correctly. What is really happening is that the fluids are slowly bleeding back in to the master cylinder and releasing the pressure built up in the slave cylinder.

mrtelefoneman1 · 06-13-2017, 10:51 PM

Thanks Gillis. I will try that tomorrow.

lostnavigator · 06-18-2017, 09:35 PM

Im not sure what your problem is but when you disassemble the clutch dont put this other crap in it. There is a fix for clutch slippage caused by wear on the clutch spring, on the 1600 they changed some parts to stop that. If you have downloaded the pdf on your bike showing the clutch it may or may not have the fix for it. It cost me around $160 for 3 new parts that any reliable Kaw repair shop should have and knows about it.

**MAS Tequila** · 06-19-2017, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostnavigator

Im not sure what your problem is but when you disassemble the clutch dont put this other crap in it. There is a fix for clutch slippage caused by wear on the clutch spring, on the 1600 they changed some parts to stop that. If you have downloaded the pdf on your bike showing the clutch it may or may not have the fix for it. It cost me around $160 for 3 new parts that any reliable Kaw repair shop should have and knows about it.

I just absolutely love it when someone talks out of their ass.

The 1600 mod that MaKaw made is a direct rip-off of the success of what Bob (The Judge) achieved with his washer mod.

They even managed to muck it up by cutting the holder to keep the slipper function.

Do yourself a huge favor and KNOW what you're speaking about before you open your mouth and insert your foot.

Of course the fact that you were willing to spend close to $200 to almost get the same results you could've gotten with a $25 set of Judge's washers is kind of satisfying.

And just remember that any reputable shop is going to give you the real scoop on what is needed.

Yes, right after they find a way to scam $160.00 from you unnecessarily.

mrtelefoneman1 · 06-19-2017, 09:23 AM

Thanks for all the info and input. A couple days ago, I removed the MC cover and wow. Just a layer of gunk in the bottom. So today, I plan to clean and inspect the MC and slave cylinder, fill and bleed and see what happens. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll just have to pull the cover.

**MAS Tequila** · 06-19-2017, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtelefoneman1

Thanks for all the info and input. A couple days ago, I removed the MC cover and wow. Just a layer of gunk in the bottom. So today, I plan to clean and inspect the MC and slave cylinder, fill and bleed and see what happens. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll just have to pull the cover.

That'll probably take care of your issues.

Two years, that's all the lifespan the fluid has, whether in the clutch or the brake lines.

The gunk is the result of all the moisture it has absorbed.

It sounds like it's likely original.

Make sure the little return hole is clean.

DragonLady58 · 06-19-2017, 12:35 PM

As MAS told you, the life expectancy isn't long at all! Thats why they make calenders, to hang on walls and mark dates. And on Computers!
Flush that crap out every few years, all your brakes and the clutch system....you'll be suprised how long these things will last when taken care of....
I even keep a large notebook in the top of my toolbox, in the very front, is a maint. schedule, with the date and year wrote down for various things needing servicing.
Brake fluid pulls moisture outta the air, and it turns into a goo thats not real nice to o'rings and seals....
That moisture will eat the crap outta those caliper bores and housings if just left to sit in there for years....

rolfe · 06-19-2017, 09:14 PM

Keep Us Posted on Your Findings.

Rolfe

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtelefoneman1

Thanks for all the suggestions. Just knew i would get some good advice. I have a couple days off coming up to figure it out. Ill keep you informed. Thanks again.

mrtelefoneman1 · 06-20-2017, 03:44 PM

Update.....
Yesterday, I changed the plugs, oil and filter and cleaned the screen. Today, I changed the rear end oil and clutch fluid. As I said earlier, the reservoir was a mess. When I would engage the clutch, nothing from the reservoir. Not even a bubble. I cleaned it up and flushed the system, then bled it. This thing grabs like crazy now. I didn't have time to pull the slave cylinder for inspection but hopefully this weekend along with the brake reservoirs. Pretty sure I've solve the problem.

Thanks to all for your guidance and advice.

06-13-2017, 12:58 AM	#1
mrtelefoneman1 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Zanesville, OH Posts: 315	Dare I say c-l-u-t-c-h I know....another clutch thread but I need help. So I picked up an 01 FI from an OO with 25k. He says the clutch began to slip and he took it to a Kaw dealer. The receipt showed a MS spring and plates were installed. When I test rode it, I noticed it disengaged very late but no slipping. Got home and rode 20 or so miles and noticed it starting to slip at roll on. Got home and shut it off, restarted a few min later to get into garage and it wouldn't budge. After cool down it was fine until it heated up again. It started slipping again today on the way home from work. I'm thinking, either the shop didn't do the work that they claimed, although the clutch is stronger than that on my 03, oil is not correct or is in need of changing, plates are dirty, etc. I'm thinking of getting a MS spring and Judges and doing it myself. Any suggestions are appreciated. Oh yeah....why does it disengage so late? Login or Register to Remove Ads
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06-13-2017, 03:16 AM	#2
DragonLady58 Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Somewhere South of Alaska.... Posts: 2,351	Well, If they did replace the spring....and the plates, could be the other owner put the wrong oil in it. Its worth a try to change it out, but to actually get all the old oil outta the friction plates, you'll have to get her hot, and change the oil several times....some oils are not made for wet clutch bikes and have friction modifiers, and will cause exactly what your describing. If it were a weak spring, its best to go to the MS spring + the judge washers....All else being good, you'll have plenty of clutch. If the igmo ran non-wet clutch oil, you might've glazed the plates. I'd just open her up, and straighten it out with the MS spring + judge washers, mic the plates to make sure they put the right ones in....yes, you can get them in diff. thicknesses.... Having the correct thickness plates will put you clutch handle where it should be. While you have it apart, look at your clutch discs, if not much wear, clean them with some brake cleaner, lightly of course. Make sure your metal discs haven't blued, clean them good. All the spec's will be in your repair manual..... Be doubly sure to put your clutch rod in the correct way also.... __________________ --------------------- Don't start no schit, there won't be no schit.... My Sarcasm is directly proportional to the amount of Stupidity involved --------------------- VBA#03239 VROC#37400 VRA --------------------- 2014 Vaquero 2001 Nomad FI 2003 Street Glide (sold) 1500 Meanie, fresh rebuild (sold) 90s BUBF Bobber (sold) 2001 UltraCycle FatPounder (Sold) 1975 HD ElectraGlide (Sold) 1982 Kawasaki Z1 Chopper (Sold) Suck It Up & Ride! Last edited by DragonLady58; 06-13-2017 at 03:19 AM.
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06-13-2017, 05:50 AM	#3
MAS Tequila Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Psychiatric Ward FL Posts: 3,429	Check the fluid in the clutch reservoir. I've seen that happen before where, when it get's hot it flashes, then the clutch doesn't work because the slave cylinder can't push the clutch rod far enough. The first reaction is to blame the clutch. I think Trip had this happen a few years ago. You're not going to want to hear this, but it's usually a sign of the front bevel gear bearing heating up. Start by checking and/or changing the clutch fluid. Good luck with the 'new' scoot. __________________ MT 2016 FLHP Psychiatric Ward FL VBA 936
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06-13-2017, 12:18 PM	#5
DragonLady58 Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Somewhere South of Alaska.... Posts: 2,351	Your bike being a 01', I'd check out MAS's thoughts 1st.....god only knows when the fluids ever been changed, if ever....then if no satisfaction, open her up and start putting things together correctly.... __________________ --------------------- Don't start no schit, there won't be no schit.... My Sarcasm is directly proportional to the amount of Stupidity involved --------------------- VBA#03239 VROC#37400 VRA --------------------- 2014 Vaquero 2001 Nomad FI 2003 Street Glide (sold) 1500 Meanie, fresh rebuild (sold) 90s BUBF Bobber (sold) 2001 UltraCycle FatPounder (Sold) 1975 HD ElectraGlide (Sold) 1982 Kawasaki Z1 Chopper (Sold) Suck It Up & Ride! Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

06-13-2017, 09:08 PM	#7
gillisfire Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Lake Charles, LA Posts: 149	Something to try when your bike is "heated up" and the clutch stops working. Take a wrench and quickly loosen and re-tighten the Banjo bolt that connects the clutch line to your master cylinder. What this does is it relieves the pressure built up in your clutch line, and will allow the clutch to operate correctly again until the pressure builds up again from use. If this works and your clutch is useable again, then the problem is that the master cylinder needs to be rebuilt. The plunger in the M.C. most likely has a small tare in it and is not creating enough of a suction to pull the fluids back from the slave cylinder. So it will seem that as your bike "cools", your clutch will cool off and function correctly. What is really happening is that the fluids are slowly bleeding back in to the master cylinder and releasing the pressure built up in the slave cylinder. __________________ My Rides: His-2004 Nomad 1500 His-2009 Vulcan 900 custom SE Hers-2008 Suzuki C50 And restoreing 1979 Honda CB750k
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06-13-2017, 06:51 AM	#4
vulcanscott Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: chandler okla Posts: 854	Also when changing the clutch fluid make sure the return hole is clear it may be building up pressure as you ride and keeping the clutch released . any way start with above since the bike is new to you change the oil flush the clutch system paying attention to return hole and you may not have a problem .
	0

06-13-2017, 06:49 PM	#6
mrtelefoneman1 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Zanesville, OH Posts: 315	Thanks for all the suggestions. Just knew i would get some good advice. I have a couple days off coming up to figure it out. Ill keep you informed. Thanks again.
	0

06-13-2017, 10:51 PM	#8
mrtelefoneman1 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Zanesville, OH Posts: 315	Thanks Gillis. I will try that tomorrow.
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06-18-2017, 09:35 PM	#9
lostnavigator Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Oquawka, il Posts: 67	Im not sure what your problem is but when you disassemble the clutch dont put this other crap in it. There is a fix for clutch slippage caused by wear on the clutch spring, on the 1600 they changed some parts to stop that. If you have downloaded the pdf on your bike showing the clutch it may or may not have the fix for it. It cost me around $160 for 3 new parts that any reliable Kaw repair shop should have and knows about it.
	0

06-19-2017, 09:23 AM	#11
mrtelefoneman1 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Zanesville, OH Posts: 315	Thanks for all the info and input. A couple days ago, I removed the MC cover and wow. Just a layer of gunk in the bottom. So today, I plan to clean and inspect the MC and slave cylinder, fill and bleed and see what happens. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll just have to pull the cover.
	0

06-19-2017, 12:35 PM	#13
DragonLady58 Sr. Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Somewhere South of Alaska.... Posts: 2,351	As MAS told you, the life expectancy isn't long at all! Thats why they make calenders, to hang on walls and mark dates. And on Computers! Flush that crap out every few years, all your brakes and the clutch system....you'll be suprised how long these things will last when taken care of.... I even keep a large notebook in the top of my toolbox, in the very front, is a maint. schedule, with the date and year wrote down for various things needing servicing. Brake fluid pulls moisture outta the air, and it turns into a goo thats not real nice to o'rings and seals.... That moisture will eat the crap outta those caliper bores and housings if just left to sit in there for years.... __________________ --------------------- Don't start no schit, there won't be no schit.... My Sarcasm is directly proportional to the amount of Stupidity involved --------------------- VBA#03239 VROC#37400 VRA --------------------- 2014 Vaquero 2001 Nomad FI 2003 Street Glide (sold) 1500 Meanie, fresh rebuild (sold) 90s BUBF Bobber (sold) 2001 UltraCycle FatPounder (Sold) 1975 HD ElectraGlide (Sold) 1982 Kawasaki Z1 Chopper (Sold) Suck It Up & Ride! Last edited by DragonLady58; 06-19-2017 at 01:27 PM.
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06-20-2017, 03:44 PM	#15
mrtelefoneman1 Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Zanesville, OH Posts: 315	Update..... Yesterday, I changed the plugs, oil and filter and cleaned the screen. Today, I changed the rear end oil and clutch fluid. As I said earlier, the reservoir was a mess. When I would engage the clutch, nothing from the reservoir. Not even a bubble. I cleaned it up and flushed the system, then bled it. This thing grabs like crazy now. I didn't have time to pull the slave cylinder for inspection but hopefully this weekend along with the brake reservoirs. Pretty sure I've solve the problem. Thanks to all for your guidance and advice.
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