Chevy pistons in VN1600?

[redjay]

I have a 1300 Yamaha V Star Deluxe and with an aftermarket intake, Ivan's flash and a slip on muffler it produces around 86 bhp, averages around 50mpg and weighs 720 lbs. It comes with a batwing and bags from the factory. For anyone that wants to keep most of the features of the Nomad/Vaquero but in a lighter more economical package the 1300 V Star Tourer or Deluxe is an option.

[andyvh1959]

When done with my 1600 I'll be right around 90hp at the crank, frame mounted fairing (stereo, GPS, MP3), hard bags and tail trunk, just under 800 lbs. So it'll be in the range of your bike and other full dressers. Won't get 50 mpg though, that's for sure.

Interesting, my BMW R1200RT weighs less than 600lbs, makes 110hp, torque comparable to the Vulcan (but at 4500 rpm), can carry more load than the Vulcan or Harley, can haul ass all day at 5,000 rpm and still get over 45 mpg, handles great and easily. But has a totally different feel than a big v-twin cruiser.

[alwhite00]

My 1500 had a programmer, coasters, V&H true duals, and it was definately not a big power engine. My newer bike has double the HP. Its crazy what 15 years can do.

[DragonLady58]

What MAS said! Yes, I have run Chevy pistons made by Manley, machine work was in order....
Here we go again down the rabbit hole on these bikes....
Kawa, Suz, Yama's put the hurt to HD back in the late 90's-early 2000's, as they had hade engines all the way up to 1900 cc's. The poor HD's were trying to compete against water cooled bikes that'd run all day, all night, fully loaded, with nary a problem. Harleys couldn't keep up.
Weeeeeell, enter the Harley, and the 96, the 103, the 107, the 110, and 113....These were built to deal the the big metrics, cause those big metrics really made HD see if they didn't up out the power to compete on the bagger markets....they were history.
Now, the bigger engines put out alot more power. You could get the big HD 'ORCA" engines, that had the massive Vtwins that put power out to well over 200 hp....Big Time Overkill.
SOOOOOO, HD started to slightly increase they're displacement from the lowly 88 cu.in. to the bigger ones....
Now.... the 1500 kawa engines are great, good power, good reliability, lasts along time, 200k usually....
Now these days the HD's are big inch, putting out big power with all the power adding goodies thats everyone is putting out now.....
As MAS said, -0-, zip, zilch on performance support for the 1500 Vulcans....
Alot of this is dealing with the EPA rules for everyone....

Now, back in the early 20 teens, I decided to do a all out yet streetable 1500/1600 for my Nomad....me and all my Harley performance friends decided since they didn't have many avenues to go to get parts, we'd just do this old school.
My cost was about $6000 in a engine, a real firebreather, that'll keep up with the big inch HD's....
Would I do it again? no....
Enjoy that big torquey Vulcan....its a great bagger!

[DragonLady58]

Just to give you a idea of the mods I did, I'm gonna give you the highlights....and they were very extensive, to say the least....
Manley forged sbc hi-compression pistons, dome milled with valve reliefs, fire trenched to permote flame travel, custom H-Beam sbc rods, completely remachined, bushed small ends, arp rod bots. Now, with all this, the skirts had to be trimmed, wrist pin holes resized, and the complete piston/rod/flywheel assembly was rebalanced for all of it to work together.
Hi-perf. cams with stock timing chains, teflon coated chain shoes, manley oversized intake and exhausts, spring seats cut to equalize all the springs heights, springs are triple springs, the 2 inner springs are to ensure o valve float and min. wear (light pressure).
Heads were cnc ported, especially the bowl directly below the intakes, the exhaust were opened up fron bowl to 1/16 to edge of exh. port. Intake was cnc ported to match, instead of 2 ports, looking into my ports it looked like a sideways figure 8 instead of 2 holes. Ran 2 hi-flow injectors....don't remember their spec's now, auto compression release was deleted, oil flow drainback passages were smoothed and aftermarket lifters/ lash adjusters were installed, having to machine their holes. Rocker arms were hard faced, and reground with add. oiling holes.
Case was clearanced to clear rod socket head cap screw bolts, balancer shaft was redone....more or less a dummy shaft.
Cases were smoothed, shotpeened, deburred, oil passages massaged to smooth out oil flow....
This engine was dyno'ed at 120+ horses.....smooth power till about 3000 rpm, then all hell broke loose.
While this thing is powerful and torquey, its dangerous to ride during and/or right after a rain....or if the streets a the least bit slick. With fresh motor mounts, a all out powershift into 2nd gear (if theres such a thing) will have the front tire dangling into the air, very much sideways into 3rd, and 4th your too busy hanging on for dear life to pay attention to anything else. Easily bounces off the rev limiter with a quick twist of the go grip....
While its been fun, this engine is now starting to feel her age. Reringed and rebearinged going on her 3rd time....I'm just doing mildly hopped up 1600s these days....
Let me just say this, back when Thunder Performance was in business, they built great parts....if they'd continued, you'd probably see some Vulcans ripping down the 1/4 mile!

[andyvh1959]

Thanks for the detailed feedback. Too bad Thunder Performance piston are so hard to find. I'd consider them if it didn't mean a lot of machining mods. So I will go the course of making an enjoyable blend of Classic and Mean Streak parts and enjoy the bike for what it is. I know I'll enjoy once I get the Mean Streak gears in the tranny and the Mean Streak 1500 heads/cams/throttle body on my project.

Too bad Kawasaki didn't take the 1600 up to what it could be. By comparison, my 2007 BMW R1200RT weighs less than 600 lbs wet, can carry more weight than most v-twin cruisers, gets 45mpg at worst, 110 hp at the crank with 12:1 comp ratio so it really likes premium gas, and goes like stink when you keep the revs from 4500 to 7000. 65 mph in 6th gear is a bit under 4,000 rpm and very smooth. 4,000 rpm on my BMW feels no more rushed than 2,500 on my Vulcan. Yet, the VN1600 has an entirely different, more relaxed feel and makes more torque than my BMW down low to about 3,000 rpm.

[alwhite00]

Originally Posted by DragonLady58

Just to give you a idea of the mods I did, I'm gonna give you the highlights....and they were very extensive, to say the least....
Manley forged sbc hi-compression pistons, dome milled with valve reliefs, fire trenched to permote flame travel, custom H-Beam sbc rods, completely remachined, bushed small ends, arp rod bots. Now, with all this, the skirts had to be trimmed, wrist pin holes resized, and the complete piston/rod/flywheel assembly was rebalanced for all of it to work together.
Hi-perf. cams with stock timing chains, teflon coated chain shoes, manley oversized intake and exhausts, spring seats cut to equalize all the springs heights, springs are triple springs, the 2 inner springs are to ensure o valve float and min. wear (light pressure).
Heads were cnc ported, especially the bowl directly below the intakes, the exhaust were opened up fron bowl to 1/16 to edge of exh. port. Intake was cnc ported to match, instead of 2 ports, looking into my ports it looked like a sideways figure 8 instead of 2 holes. Ran 2 hi-flow injectors....don't remember their spec's now, auto compression release was deleted, oil flow drainback passages were smoothed and aftermarket lifters/ lash adjusters were installed, having to machine their holes. Rocker arms were hard faced, and reground with add. oiling holes.
Case was clearanced to clear rod socket head cap screw bolts, balancer shaft was redone....more or less a dummy shaft.
Cases were smoothed, shotpeened, deburred, oil passages massaged to smooth out oil flow....
This engine was dyno'ed at 120+ horses.....smooth power till about 3000 rpm, then all hell broke loose.
While this thing is powerful and torquey, its dangerous to ride during and/or right after a rain....or if the streets a the least bit slick. With fresh motor mounts, a all out powershift into 2nd gear (if theres such a thing) will have the front tire dangling into the air, very much sideways into 3rd, and 4th your too busy hanging on for dear life to pay attention to anything else. Easily bounces off the rev limiter with a quick twist of the go grip....
While its been fun, this engine is now starting to feel her age. Reringed and rebearinged going on her 3rd time....I'm just doing mildly hopped up 1600s these days....
Let me just say this, back when Thunder Performance was in business, they built great parts....if they'd continued, you'd probably see some Vulcans ripping down the 1/4 mile!

Damn DL, hell 9f a build. I would love to see the dyno curve on that if you have it.

[andyvh1959]

Another wild ass idea: VN1600 bore and stroke is 102mm x 95mm. VN1700 bore and stroke is 102mm x 104mm. So, if the wrist pin diameter for both VN1600 and VN1700 pistons are the same, then perhaps the 1700 piston could fit if the pin to deck height does not cause valve interference. The VN1700 comp ratio is 9.5:1 versus 9.0:1 for the VN1600. If the deck height of the 1700 piston allows for valve clearance in the 1600 at TDC then it may raise the comp-ratio. On Bikebandit the wrist pin part numbers for the 1600 and 1700 are different, but that doesn't mean the pin diameters are different.

Given the bores are the same, the 1700 engine increased displacement is in the con-rod length and crank throw (the 104mm stroke), 9mm longer for the VN1700. I assume the crank offset is also longer for the VN1700. Anyone know the crank offset and con-rod center to center distance for the 1700, and how those dimensions compare to the VN1600?

Some interesting reading here: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/05...-stroke-ratio/

[plumber63]

Try

[Mechaniac]

Well if you're still looking for a drop in piston that will raise compression slightly don't forget I have a set of 1500MS pistons and rings I won't be using. Only problem is your 1600 sleeves better be really good as they are STD. sized. We were planning on re-sleeving so Ray's already done the home work there.

Vernon

[andyvh1959]

Weren't the VN1500 pistons also shorter height wise, with shorter piston skirts? I read somewhere a change between the 1500 and 1600 was the 1600 pistons featured longer skirts to reduce piston racking and engine noise.

[Mechaniac]

I don't know. I do know the Mean Streak 1500 piston is unique to itself. It is different than the other two, if the 1500 and 1600 have a difference it may be the skirt length.

[blowndodge]

I won a gold medal years ago. It started to look tarnished so I had it "bronzed."

[Mechaniac]

With the money I have in the bank I could buy over 10 new Harleys or Indians faster than my bike. I don't care. Built not bought is fun when I do it. I don't go out of my way to be an ass about it either.

Vernon

[andyvh1959]

I agree. When I am done with my 1600 Nomad/Bagger/Mean Streak, with a heavily modified Pacifico Shadow fairing, it'll be the only one like it. My goal is to keep it right around 800lbs, with the engine updates/mods/Mean Streak parts/gears it'll give me a power/weight ratio comparable to a Harley 103. It'll never be a HD114 or Indian118, but it'll be something unique that I built.

Just changing from the Classic 16" wheels/brakes/bias-plys to the Mean Streak 17" wheels/brakes/radials took 26 pounds off the bike.