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Old 03-27-2016, 09:00 AM   #1
mick56   mick56 is offline
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Pog done simple

A bloke i met who has a 1999 Nomad same as mine was unaware of the POG,when i told him he came up with the simplist way of fixing it,here are his words.

Just sorted my oil gear out, got the replacement complete with shaft, had the shaft machined off to leave an exact hole the size of the existing shaft, broke the plastic gear off - then heated up the new steel gear and slid it on and put 3 tack welds on it.

Costings wise, it was about £55 for the gear and a new RH gasket, then £75 to have it machined and took us 2.5 hrs to do. In my mind a better fix than Judges oil gear and a lot easier than splitting the crankcase or dropping the oil. The only testing bit was stopping the existing shaft from going back into the case a few mm, we got over that by using one of those little round magnets on a car ariel type thing - the magnet was the same diameter as the shaft, so the hot (expanded) new gear just slid down the "ariel" and popped straight onto the shaft.Pity they dont just sell the gear with a 12mm hole in the centre.




So there you go,all that complicated machining on the Judges oil gear seems pretty pointless,dont you think.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:22 AM   #2
schoeney   schoeney is offline
 
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Wow. That sounds simple.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:32 AM   #3
mick56   mick56 is offline
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Wow. That sounds simple.
It is simple mate.All the hundreds of pages of bullshit that have been written about this problem over the years,and along comes a bloke who actually looked at the situation,and just fixed it. British shed engineering at the forefront of technology, again.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:56 AM   #4
CajunVulcan   CajunVulcan is offline
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British shed engineering at the forefront of technology, again.
If I were to tell you what we call that over here, I would be called a racist!
 
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Old 03-27-2016, 10:02 AM   #5
mick56   mick56 is offline
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If I were to tell you what we call that over here, I would be called a racist!
Yes i know mate, we got that politically correct disease from you blokes too,but thank f-ck we are about to sort that out on June 23rd.
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Old 03-27-2016, 10:41 AM   #6
cnc   cnc is offline
 
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It is simple mate.All the hundreds of pages of bullshit that have been written about this problem over the years,and along comes a bloke who actually looked at the situation,and just fixed it. British shed engineering at the forefront of technology, again.
Actually a fella on this forum welded one on a few years back, you guys over there are a bit late for the party. I figured that he might take the temper out of the shaft and the weld would be brittle, but so far there has been nothing reported that it didn't hold up. Perhaps he will chime in.
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:12 AM   #7
mick56   mick56 is offline
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Actually a fella on this forum welded one on a few years back, you guys over there are a bit late for the party. I figured that he might take the temper out of the shaft and the weld would be brittle, but so far there has been nothing reported that it didn't hold up. Perhaps he will chime in.
I dont think he did it the same way though,as i recall. As for being late for the party. You Canadians were on time for the last 2 big ones we had over here, but the Americans were late for both,and they sent us the bill for their trouble. Maybe as the cog was only tacked with a mig/tig welder,the shaft would'nt have had time to get hot enough to affect the temper ?
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:26 AM   #8
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On My 99 1500 Classic I pulled the Shaft out of the case .Then I made a tool to reach through the hell hole and hold the snap ring off of the pump and keep it from rotating .I then tapered the new steel oil gear shaft slightly and increased the depth of the grove . Got the snap ring in the right position and rotated the gear till it wound wound into the snap ring and locked it ! Presto New SOG without splitting cases . This Repair will save Anyone who has their gear come loose from the pump also . JP has detailed it on his tear it up fix it repeat blog site with pictures of the tool . I also still have the prototype and the finished tools if Anyone needs to make one or borrow it .
 
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Old 03-27-2016, 06:12 PM   #9
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From even before the industrial revolution, here's a bit of trivia for you.

http://www.bloomberg.com/slideshow/2...countries.html
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Old 03-27-2016, 07:50 PM   #10
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I dont think he did it the same way though,as i recall. As for being late for the party. You Canadians were on time for the last 2 big ones we had over here, but the Americans were late for both,and they sent us the bill for their trouble. Maybe as the cog was only tacked with a mig/tig welder,the shaft would'nt have had time to get hot enough to affect the temper ?
Not IMO Mick. Granted heat is much more localized with a quick couple of tacks and won't effect most of the shaft, but to be a strong enough weld the parent metal must be brought up to it's melting point and the rod or wire is just filler. This normally happens even with a quick tack if you weld properly, a under heated weld will be weak with the filler not fused to the parent metal.
It could also be that the shaft is not really heat treated in which case it doesn't matter.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:18 PM   #11
mick56   mick56 is offline
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Not IMO Mick. Granted heat is much more localized with a quick couple of tacks and won't effect most of the shaft, but to be a strong enough weld the parent metal must be brought up to it's melting point and the rod or wire is just filler. This normally happens even with a quick tack if you weld properly, a under heated weld will be weak with the filler not fused to the parent metal.
It could also be that the shaft is not really heat treated in which case it doesn't matter.
I am no metallurgist mate,in fact i cant even weld. It was just a thought.
I see Vulcanscott has just explained how he did his,and i admire his tenacity,because it seems a whole lot more fiddly and involved than just welding a new cog on. I think the British shed method gets the from me.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:43 PM   #12
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I am no metallurgist mate,in fact i cant even weld. It was just a thought.
I see Vulcanscott has just explained how he did his,and i admire his tenacity,because it seems a whole lot more fiddly and involved than just welding a new cog on. I think the British shed method gets the from me.
I guess time will tell Mick. I remember a guy when I was young who had a Vespa and the back wheel kept coming loose, I can't remeber how or why but He decided the fix was to weld it on. That worked great till he got a flat one day. We got a good laugh out of that.
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Old 12-15-2017, 01:47 PM   #13
mick56   mick56 is offline
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Hey Redjay This is what you are looking for mate.
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:51 PM   #14
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Ya know....we need a 'beating a dead horse' avatar in our advance menu section.....
Yes, there are still some bikes out there with POGs that have been overlooked or fell thru the cracks.
Plain and simple, when someone encounters this problem, buy a replacement engine, sell the other one for parts, or do like I do, hold on to it, rebuild it later, so that its a backup....
I can easily start working on my bike at 9:00am, taking my time at 12:00 noon, the engine is on my work bench. and by 3:30 my backup in back into the frame hooked up and all ready to ride.
Thats with me taking my time, not rushing, going back and forth for coffee & donuts....
I can split my cases, pull the whole lower end of the engine down in about 5-5 1/2hrs. Then replace the oilpump, go back together with it.
As a retired H-D dealer mechanic, the price for last year having the shop go into a engine and repair the oilpump problem was $1750, and this was with a rebore of cylinders to freshen up the engine, a valve job, seals and gaskets. Other work not counted, and a 2 week time table. Took me having to do the finish honing of the cylinders myself to meet that deadline because of My having to ride up to Seattle.
Well, the kit for the gear is well, a fix and its cheap, I would not bet my life on its gonna last...Too many unknowns.....
To do it right, replace the gear&pump. Quick fix and a money saver, get a low mileage engine and replace.
Its very tempting to try to do a dry sump pump setup with the oil bath in the gearbox....but with not POG, these things are so damn dependable with the SOG, its crazy.
I have 3 engines that I can rotate to keep my bike on the road....That'll keep me going till I can't ride no more. I have enough pieces/parts to put about 2 more engines together from loose parts....
A oil pump gear replacement is easy, just split the cases....
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Last edited by DragonLady58; 12-16-2017 at 04:54 PM.
 
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Old 12-15-2017, 04:17 PM   #15
mick56   mick56 is offline
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While this horse is being flogged,read my first comment.A damn sight easier,and cheaper,than stripping an engine.
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