front cylinder tappy sound when hot

[scooter1600]

grab some cheap penrite diesel oil to clean out you motor
its all I run these days
$60 for 10 litres just over 2 oil changes

where in Australia are you?
Scooter

[Jllm02199]

MT
You remember when I put the 2007 1600 in my 02 Nomad. The HLA’s started clicking when I was running 20w50. I switched to 0w40 with some sea foam. In just a 100 miles it quieted down. I drained the oil and flushed the engine and put in 10w40. Its been quiet ever since. That’s the gospel.

[Youngwarrior]

Well.. where to begin....
I put the seafoam in.
Ran for 15mins at idle.
I would have said there was a slight tap from start up, not something I wouldn't be too worried about normally(knowing how bad it can get).
This quietened down after 5-10mins.
Right on the 15min mark it started tapping, the concerning tap.
I got on it and ran through the gears, hitting the limiter, I've never done this before.
I expected a 'flutter'. Initially I only got no more power and thought 'well that must be it', changed up. It got at least very near the limiter in 2 and 3rd. I don't think I got into 4th and the bike spluttered and cut out all together. Re fired itself, died again. This happened a number of times and I eventually started to change down to pull it up. ..I thought it was fucked and I was going to be pushing it home.
It stayed running. again, never riden to the limiter and remembering your comments, "you'll know when you hit the limiter" I assumed that was the limiter doing its thing. I did the same back home, it again died, started, died.
I left it running and rang a mate in regards to what happens when hitting the limiter.
...he is a kawasaki man and has bikes older than mine, 900's etc.
I said what I was told to do and that I had just done it.
He'd not heard of seafoam (this is not at all common in australia), and said (in regards to the limiter) "I wouldn't have done that".
***Not putting anyone down, and he doesn't have a vulcan.***
Anyway kept it running at home. I thought the ticking had died down shortly after ending the call.
..so I thought, well I'll take it out again and ride normally, see if it taps again once it's hot.
I couldn't get over 30km/h as it was making a hurrendous tap at that speed, in relation to rpm.
Again, not meant bad, but I would say I fuct it!
While I was concerned before, I wouldn't ride it now.

[mick56]

What is the purpose in hitting the rev limiter,what is it supposed to achieve ?

[Jllm02199]

Originally Posted by Youngwarrior

Well.. where to begin....
I put the seafoam in.
Ran for 15mins at idle.
I would have said there was a slight tap from start up, not something I wouldn't be too worried about normally(knowing how bad it can get).
This quietened down after 5-10mins.
Right on the 15min mark it started tapping, the concerning tap.
I got on it and ran through the gears, hitting the limiter, I've never done this before.
I expected a 'flutter'. Initially I only got no more power and thought 'well that must be it', changed up. It got at least very near the limiter in 2 and 3rd. I don't think I got into 4th and the bike spluttered and cut out all together. Re fired itself, died again. This happened a number of times and I eventually started to change down to pull it up. ..I thought it was fucked and I was going to be pushing it home.
It stayed running. again, never riden to the limiter and remembering your comments, "you'll know when you hit the limiter" I assumed that was the limiter doing its thing. I did the same back home, it again died, started, died.
I left it running and rang a mate in regards to what happens when hitting the limiter.
...he is a kawasaki man and has bikes older than mine, 900's etc.
I said what I was told to do and that I had just done it.
He'd not heard of seafoam (this is not at all common in australia), and said (in regards to the limiter) "I wouldn't have done that".
***Not putting anyone down, and he doesn't have a vulcan.***
Anyway kept it running at home. I thought the ticking had died down shortly after ending the call.
..so I thought, well I'll take it out again and ride normally, see if it taps again once it's hot.
I couldn't get over 30km/h as it was making a horrendous tap at that speed, in relation to rpm.
Again, not meant bad, but I would say I fuct it!
While I was concerned before, I wouldn't ride it now.

You might have an HLA pumped up to much holding the valve open.
Idle it and get it good and hot. It may smooth out.
If there was trash in the HLA it might work its was out.
When my bike was new in 02 the dealer took the top ends apart and changed all the HLA's. MT has that motor now and it don't think he has had any problems with that. My current 1600 is relatively quiet for some time. I've hit the rev limiter a couple time with no ill affects.
Slim

[roadking0678]

Originally Posted by Youngwarrior

100miles??? I been told 10 in the past. I think I will definately try this in reference to oil passages. My issue with it is I don't want to run it with seafoam, for 100miles, change oil. and it doesn't fix problem and I have to tear down and waste $60 of oil.

what is a 'hot soak' of top end?

A "hot soak" is where you let the bike warm up then let it suck the seafoam into the combustion chamber a little at a time (when it starts to die pull the hose out of the seafoam and let the idle return to normal) repeat this till your down to the last of the Seafoam then let it suck it in until it kills the motor. Let it soak for 20 minutes, then fire the bike back up.. you'll see TONS OF SMOKE coming out of the exhaust.. this is normal. After the smoke stops coming out of the exhaust youre done. This breaks up all the carbon build up on your pistons and valves.

[Spondulas]

I've never been a fan of winding engines that tightly, especially if the engine is troubled.

At this point, I would drain the oil into a clean pan and examine it closely for metal flakes or coolant droplets. If either are found, it is re-build/replace time. Metal "dust" in the oil isn't a big issue unless there is a significant amount of it.

The fact that it seems to occur when the motor is hot makes me think the oil is thinning out generally or the front cylinder is getting super hot and thinning just the oil in that area. Adding seafoam to the oil would have thinned it even more and possibly made the problem more noticeable. Try refilling it with a thicker oil such as 15-40 or 20-50 conventional oils.

Do you have access to a laser type thermometer? if so, try running the motor at idle and check the front cylinder temp vs other spots on the the engine and especially the rear cylinder. If it doesn't sound like it is about to explode, try speeding the motor up some and see if the temps stay roughly the same as at idle or increase proportionally to a higher level. If the front cylinder is a lot hotter than the rear, you have probably isolated the problem area. I would suspect either a restricted cooling or oiling passage allowing the front cylinder to overheat.

[mick56]

I could never see the sense in revving the shit out of a sick engine either.What's to be gained ? Surely gentle treatment,while trying to find the problem,is better than destroying the whole thing.The rev limiter is there for a reason.

[DragonLady58]

Hahaha, sorry, I know that they're HLAs, just call them lifters even though the cam is the actual lifter in the Kawas setup....Gotta remember, I was a Harley mechanic for over 25 years...I plead the 5th!


-----After it's warmed up run it out, all the way out until the rev limiter kicks, you will know when it does, in a couple of gears several times.

I'll bet that it will help.-----
MAS and I have said this till we're blue in face....you will do more harm to these engines by lugging them around like a Harley Davidson. A Harley likes it down low and in the medium range, its a very long stroke engine, and was created to operate at low rpms.
The Big Vulcans Absolutely love to rev!!!!! Thats the reason why you start getting on it, you'll start liking all that power! And they put the rev limiter in place to keep things in one piece.
Put it like this, if you blow a engine reving the 1500/1600/1700 up, she was really damaged and was gonna let go anyway.
The easest way to decarbon a engine is once a month, take her out on the interstate and rev her up in each gear!
My Thunder 1600 when I get to reving in each gear , man she's sounds like a big block Chevy especially when I'm backing outta her. Like I said 1st gear i shift out about 35 to 45, 2nd about 60, 3rd about 70/75....these engines can take it easily if in decent or above shape.
Your not gonna hurt it by bouncing off the rev limiter some in lower gears, but, if you got decent pipes, folks within a mile&1/2 of you is gonna snap their head toward you wondering who your racing.
Rev'em up a little on occassion to decarbon them, even helps flush out your HLAs....

[mick56]

While you are waiting for a smart bastard to appear.

[Youngwarrior]

...so my oil level sight glass that is unreadable... Bike is not leaking oil. Shown no signs of burning oil, no smoke no smell. Tailpipe looks normal, no signs of excessive smoking or oil residue. Not a fucking indication at all of lacking oil, the only other thing I could have done was drop oil and measure, but like I say, had no reason to think...it didn't have any!!!!! Dropped oil to pull motor today, I drained 2 cups out. It's burnt 3 litres in under 4000kms. Im fucking dumb founded. So sorry for wasting peoples time. Motor now runs beautiful... at idle. Went to go for a ride, its got a knock in it around the 30km/h. Over and out :(