Rotella T6 formula changed

[minst7877]

As per Shell's website the formula has been changed on our beloved T6.

There are many over on the VTX boards who are experiencing clutch problems now due to this change. Shell has confirmed that the formula has changed and has added Moly to the T6.

Looks like the next change will have to be with a different oil.

DC

[Tortuga]

Back to Shell dino....I used it for 177,000 miles in my 2000 Venture. No oil related problems.

Are the T6 containers marked with the change?

[recumbentbob]

http://rotella.shell.com/products/t6...synthetic.html
It's rated JASO-MA/MA2. I don't know if this is the new one or not.

[recumbentbob]

Shell also has expanded the line of the T6.
http://rotella.shell.com/products.html

[JayJay]

Ahhhh wtf when did this happen? I got some for Christmas that I've been waiting till spring to put in....not impressed..😠😠

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[recumbentbob]

Originally Posted by JayJay

Ahhhh wtf when did this happen?.😠😠

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December 2016 when the new standards came out for Diesel oil.

http://www.api.org/news-policy-and-i...ngine-oils-are

[tonik]

Wow. Thanks for the heads up.

[tonik]

Originally Posted by minst7877

As per Shell's website the formula has been changed on our beloved T6.

There are many over on the VTX boards who are experiencing clutch problems now due to this change. Shell has confirmed that the formula has changed and has added Moly to the T6.

Looks like the next change will have to be with a different oil.

DC

Can you point me to the confirmation. Their website still says it is JASO MA/MA2. Guy I know called them, and the engineer said no...but said their phone is ringing off the hook on this issue.

http://rotella.shell.com/products/t6...synthetic.html

[recumbentbob]

I guess the best thing to do is to check the back of the bottle for the JASO rating before you buy it..

[ringadingh]

Is there a way of knowing if you have the new oil or is the labeling identical to the old oil?

[JayJay]

Got this for Christmas (2016) and has the JASO on the bottle....old batch I guess?🤔🤔

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[EdmontonNomad]

found the following on the honda1800goldwing forum

"Lots of confusion. Hopefully this will make it less so (although since it's "oil", it will probably start an argument).

From a 2005 Owner's manual, the oil recommendation lists two (2) oil specifications. The oil one uses only has to comply with one (1) of these specs. (If you can find an oil that complies with both, more power to you.)

The specs are:

1. API (American Petroleum Institute) classification SG or higher except oils labeled as energy conserving on the circular API service label.

2. JASO (Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) T 903 standard MA (MA is the grade of oil).

API and JASO are American and Japanese standards organizations, respectively, who test and do all kinds of things, and write specifications. In this case it's oil. API writes a spec that says something like "To be labeled as an SJ oil, the oil has to be formulated by X method and cannot contain more than Y% of this and that" or words to that effect. JASO does the same thing with their T 903 spec.

The real difference is that the API spec is for automotive applications and includes just about any mechanical device that uses oil - engines, compressors, struts and such.

The JASO spec (T 903) is specific to motorcycles. JASO also has specs for 4-cycle (automotive) engines, 2-cycle engines, diesel engines and all kinds of other applications. (It appears the Japanese like to keep employment high for specification writers since they have so many different specs that are covered by one API spec.)

The most recent confusion concerns Shell Rotella oil. Lots of folks have latched on to the fact that the new formulations are "JASO" certified. True, but the certification is for a diesel engine (JASO DH-2) - remember, the motorcycle spec is JASO T 903.

In conclusion, as long as the oil used meets either of the specs, API or JASO, you're good to go."

the shell rotella t6 line has the specs as follows from the shell rotella web site.

OEM Specifications and Approvals for Shell ROTELLA® t6 full synthetic heavy duty engine oil

API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4
ACEA E9; JASO DH-2; Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31

the specs for
Specifications and Approvals for Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30 Full Synthetic Heavy Duty Engine Oil

API CK-4, API SN, ACEA E6, JASO DH-2, Cummins 20086, Volvo VDS-4.5, MACK EOS-4.5, DDC DFS 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-3, MB 228.51

ie. shell rotella t6 5w-30 multi-vehicle is not jaso but jaso dh-2 only, while the shell rotella t6 (not the multi-vehicle 5w-30) also states jaso ma/ma2

whether shell rotella t6 (not the multi-vehicle) has moly in it, I cannot say, but at the recent Edmonton motorcycle show a booth was promoting a jaso motorcycle oil that had moly in it. when queried the response was that it was okay for wet clutches. I think somewhere I read that other motorcycle oils have moly in it (valvoline?)

so the question is that those who had slipping clutches, which rotella t6 did they use.

[Jllm02199]

Mobile one 10w40 synthetic gray cap.
All I use. No problems.

[DragonLady58]

Lucas 20w50 motorcycle oil....synthetic, thinner than almost all 20w50's, equiv. to having 10w40 or 15w40 (pumping resistance when oil is really cold) running thru its veins....

[EdmontonNomad]

found the following info re motorcycle oils and catalytic converters. certainly my year 2000 nomad 1500 fi has a catalytic converter.

WHY USE A MOTORCYCLE OIL?
Motorcycle oils have higher levels of phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection and the same high-temperature detergent technology for superior wear protection and engine cleanliness, even at elevated oil temperatures. Specifically motorcycle oils for aircooled engines are designed for very high localized oil temperatures and high overall oil temperatures, and typically have high flash points coupled with higher HTHS viscosities and lower noack% losses. As a whole, it would appear that all most motorcycle oils we tested have excellent anti-wear additive levels and most are not SM or SN rated oils, but rather earlier SG, SH, or SJ rated. In a pinch, it should be fairly easy to find a motorcycle oil with any of these SG, SH, or SJ ratings at your local auto parts store when it may be more difficult to get Brad Penn or Swepco, without having it shipped to you. Please do remember that motorcycle oils typically have levels of Zn and P that will kill catalytic converters, so if you have one, either remove it first or use another oil, like Brad Penn or Swepco. Also, motorcycle oils are not as detergent as the aforementioned Brad Penn or Swepco, so you must change the oil much more often, even though the perception of being able to go longer because the oil costs more is a false one.

IS THERE MOLY IN MY MOTOR OIL? IS MOLY BAD FOR MY ENGINE?
From our testing, most SM oils have some level of boron and moly to make up for the lower level of Zn and P and is now more commonly found in SM oils and CJ-4 oils. In the development of long-life motor oils with reduced Zn and P, organic soluble moly has been added to help neutralize oxides formed in the motor oil from byproducts of combustion in addition to its use as a friction modifier to improve fuel economy and reduce engine wear in GF-4 and energy conserving oils. Some brands of oils have more moly than others, with Redline and Royal Purple using significantly high levels of moly in their lubricants. Some oil manufacturers claim that the addition of moly can reduce friction up to 38%, reduce bearing wear up to 60% and reduce overall operating temperatures.

On the flip side, some advertise their product does not have moly intentionally, claiming moly is an abrasive and deposit forming, which are both true in as much as ZDDP, although forming good anti-wear films, it increases friction and the oil's traction coefficient. CMW Oil is one of the most vocal proponents of the elimination of moly all together from motor oils and does not use any moly friction modifiers in its street, race, or fleet lubricants. CMW is not alone in their recommendation against the use of moly in oils, with Cummins Engine Oil Recommendations, Bulletin No. 3810340-02, stating that "there is firm evidence that certain friction modifiers, molybdenum dithiophosphate for example, can in certain formulations result in cam follower pin failure at relatively low mileage." Also, molybdenum compounds in motor oils can degrade and cause bearing corrosion and is particularly aggressive towards copper. In almost all cases, any engine oil formula having "moly" will also contain a copper deactivator which will protect bearings from the moly compounds. The only problem, the copper deactivator decomposes at relatively low temperatures and looses it's potency after a few thousand miles, which can be seen in used oil analyses of moly rich oils having higher than normal copper levels. Additionally, there is documentation in various SAE publications showing a vast number of different species of moly friction modifiers, some providing better wear than fuel savings and vice-versa, and unfortunately, there is no easy way to determine how a friction modified oil is formulated other than to assume that a GF-4 and now GF-5 also known as energy or resource conserving oil is most likely to bias fuel savings for lower wear protection in thinner oils, like the aforementioned 5w20 viscosity so many import and domestic engines now require to meet CAFE requirements. Furthermore, the addition of start-stop technologies almost certainly require the use of zero weight oils to ensure immediate oil flow to prevent accelerated start up wear.