Will the USA survive?

[markclark57]

Originally Posted by AlabamaNomadRider

Someone on here needs to resize their signature pictures. I am having to scroll left and right to read anything. Would love to be able to read what everyone is saying but am just tired of moving back and forth. Please resize, and I won't call any members name. You may have noticed this yourself. Please help us all out.

Sorry Gene, I was leaving it big for the "Badgeless" thread.

I just changed it, so it should take hold in a few minutes. :-)

[audiogooroo]

Originally Posted by AlabamaNomadRider

Someone on here needs to resize their signature pictures. I am having to scroll left and right to read anything. Would love to be able to read what everyone is saying but am just tired of moving back and forth. Please resize, and I won't call any members name. You may have noticed this yourself. Please help us all out.

;)

[markclark57]

Just got the tune up zeroed in on my MAC Book. . . Blazin' fast and 500 GB hard drive. That still doesn't speed up the link from Photo Bucket to Pro Boards. Really, I resized, I promise. . .

[canedriver]

I love the anti government rant. Lets do away with it completely I am sure you think that will solve all your problems. Someone said beware of what you wish for hoping for bigger government. I say beware of what you wish for when you have no government.

You laugh at me when I say corporations are to blame for part of this. I laugh at the ignorance. Far easier to bury your head in the sand and ignore the facts around you.

Let me ask you this. If companies are hurting why are profits up? The workers are the ones hurting NOT the companies. I am talking major corporations not your smaller mom and pop shops.

Western nations as a whole are moving to a more service oriented economy. Unfortunately for the United States those service oriented jobs are being moved over seas. Here is where some of you guys are gong to slam the worker and say they are greedy self serving people who drove business right out of the country. WRONG. I am talking jobs like call centers that pay $8.00 an hour. These service everything from your bank, credit cards, customer service, and even the lower end telemarketing. Even those are disappearing from America.

You are right that it is our current political system to blame, but who do you think pays those lobbyists? That would be the corporations.

I am curious as to how you propose to fix the current unemployment system as these are the people you want to kick off the government welfare.

In 2010 Productivity rose 3.9% while unit labor fell 1.5%. What this means is companies are making more using less labor. So with 13 million + out of work companies squeeze more labor from the current work force, post ever increasing profits, and pay less in taxes. See GE who paid 0 taxes on 5.1 billion. Operating margins stand at a near record of 19.8%

Sorry but the problem isn't the people on the welfare or unemployment books. Its big corporations who can pay politicians to make a system that keeps the average worker stuck in a lowering economic middle class.

The following is by far the best explanation I have seen of taxes in America on business. Having owned my own business it explains the thought process behind whether or not you hire workers or pocket money when it comes to tax time.

Feel free to get a pencil and paper and follow along.


Taxes are not paid on revenue.

Taxes are paid on profits.

Profits are revenues minus costs.

Labor is a cost.

Let's imagine a small business.

For the sake of simplicity, let's say it's a personal business, not a corporation.

It has gross revenues of $10,000,000 a year.

It has one hundred employees. They each make about the median income, about $35,000 a year. So they have a payroll of $3,500,000.

All it's other expenses come to $5,000,000 a year. This includes all the things it buys to make whatever it sells, rent, utilities, shipping, legal, accounting, etc., etc., and so forth.

That leaves a profit of $1,500,000 a year.

Let's look at a very high tax situation.

Taxes on everything over a million dollars a years is 90%. (The rate from WWII until 1964)

So, on the final half million of my profits, I have to give the government $450,000, leaving just $50,000.

If I add ten employees at $35,000 each, that costs me $350,000. Those are costs, deducted from revenues, decreasing profits.

Do I want to do that?

I would only have kept $35,000 of that $350,000 anyway.

You bet I want to do it. I get to add ten employees at a cost - to me - of just $35,000. Or $3,500 per employee.

I get more production, more territories, more sales. My business grows.

Indeed, the whole community benefits.

Let's look at a much lower tax situation.

Say 30%

We'll assume the same business, same employees, same costs and profits.

Let's say I'm approached by a factory in China. For simplicity's sake, let's say that even with shipping and other ancillary costs, I can cut fifty jobs and walk away with half their salaries as profits.

Fifty employees cost me $1,750,000. Half of that is $875,000. After taxes (30%), I keep $612,000. That's worth doing.

The abover scenario just explained to you that its not greedy workers in the US, lower paid workers overseas, or high taxes that send jobs overseas. Its the current tax system that encourages it because companies can pocket more and more money.

Let's say that by increasing hours, decreasing benefits, firing older workers, hiring new workers at a lower pay scale and a variety of other maneuvers, I can decrease my costs by the equivalent of ten employees. That's $350,000. At a 90% tax rate I only keep $35,000. Not chump change. But balanced against continuity, happiness, and efficiency in my company and the likelihood that it will grow my business, I'm likely to keep my people. At a 30% tax rate I keep $245,000. I'll jump on it.

In any debate on taxes and their effect on business, keep in mind that taxes are only paid on profits. Costs are counted against profits. High taxes are, therefore, an inducement to invest (create deductible costs). Labor is a cost. High taxes are, therefore, an inducement to hire people. Not, of course, at random, but people who will grow the business and increase the value of the business.

Low taxes are an inducement to reduce costs - at whatever cost - and take profits. We currently have low taxes. If the theoretical model above is correct, the result should be high unemployment and high corporate profits. Moreover, profits that are retained. That are not reinvested. Except to purchase other companies.

Which is exactly what we have.

[Loafer]

Markclark57, aka heinz 57, Thanks

[BudMan]

Originally Posted by loafer

Markclark57,

aka heinz 57,

please go into

your profile and

scroll down to

your signature

pics and set your

cursor between

the #2 pic and #3

pic and hit "ENTER",

this will stack your

photos 2 over 2 and

shorten the width of

the screen. Some of

us would like to read

the posts without

scrooling back and forth.

Thanks, Gerry

[sas]

First and foremost: Let's quit giving money to the foreign governments who are our enemies to begin with. They don't deserve it, they don't need it, they continue to hate us and they spread that very same money we give them to help their friends try to destroy us. This is like..."Hey! I see you're out of ammo! Here, take these extra magazines, RPG'S and bombs and we'll cease fire until you reload and find more secure positions. We want to be fair to you while you try to kill us." Dumb and Dumber.

[canedriver]

Originally Posted by sas

First and foremost: Let's quit giving money to the foreign governments who are our enemies to begin with. They don't deserve it, they don't need it, they continue to hate us and they spread that very same money we give them to help their friends try to destroy us. This is like..."Hey! I see you're out of ammo! Here, take these extra magazines, RPG'S and bombs and we'll cease fire until you reload and find more secure positions. We want to be fair to you while you try to kill us." Dumb and Dumber.

100% agree.

[markclark57]

Originally Posted by loafer

A BIG HUG & THANK YOU, MARK!!!!!! ;)

One more slight adjustment for your entertainment. ;-)

[markclark57]

Originally Posted by loafer

A BIG HUG & THANK YOU, MARK!!!!!! ;)

One more slight adjustment for your entertainment. ;-)

[Loafer]

Originally Posted by markclark57

One more slight adjustment for your entertainment. ;-)

[Dave]

Originally Posted by canedriver

I don't know about campaigning for higher taxes as much as I am campaigning for equal it fair share taxes.

Here we go again with "fair share." Fingernails on a chalk board!

[Dave]

Originally Posted by canedriver

I don't know about campaigning for higher taxes as much as I am campaigning for equal it fair share taxes.

Here we go again with "fair share." Fingernails on a chalk board!

[canedriver]

What exactly is wrong with asking everyone to pay taxes (fair share)

Oh wait that's right asking someone who pays zero in taxes to suddey pay taxes is a tax increase and doesn't sit well at the tea party.

[canedriver]

What exactly is wrong with asking everyone to pay taxes (fair share)

Oh wait that's right asking someone who pays zero in taxes to suddey pay taxes is a tax increase and doesn't sit well at the tea party.