Gasoline....low, mid or premium

[schoeney]

Mac, You said higher octane has different additives that cause it to burn slower. Slower burning fuel......wouldn't that explain the better MPG?

I am just pushing the issue because I don't understand how some of us get better MPG with higher octane and others get better mpg using lower octane. Well I am also pushing it because I have 20 minutes to kill and I am a PITA.

[macmac]

Originally Posted by schoeney

Mac, You said higher octane has different additives that cause it to burn slower. Slower burning fuel......wouldn't that explain the better MPG?

I am just pushing the issue because I don't understand how some of us get better MPG with higher octane and others get better mpg using lower octane. Well I am also pushing it because I have 20 minutes to kill and I am a PITA.

It depends on how the engine is set up. If the engine is stock it will need a slower burning fuel because the ecu is set overly lean.

If the engine has the same mods my engine has it will get 46 to 48 set up the way i had it pre car tire, and 44 to 46 maybe with the car tire. This also depends on what the ft tire is and if there is any bias ply tires as well.

Radial tires will improve MPG's as well. Syn oils in the engine and the rear gear set will improve MPG's.

In my experience crash bar covers improve MPG's.

Burning fuel too slow or too rich will create carbon deposits. I have that happen in winter time on my mantel lamps and don't notice till I either smell stink, or see less light because the mantel are sooted up so bad there is less light.

Then I reduce the flame to almost none and burn off the carbon. people who don't know they can do that will throw away a 10 dollar mantel and install a new one.

You want a fuel with as little octane additive as possible and still not have PING. There IS the most bang in that fuel. The more bang you get the further you go on less.

When compression ratio set of the air fuel charge before the spark you have PING. At that point and any time you can hear PING damage is getting done.

There IS inaudible PING and our engines do not have anti knock sensors, but i have worked on engines that do. These sensors kill spark when ping is inaudible and that fuel is then used to cool the combustion chamber, and produces no power. That feels almost like the rpm limter when you hit it on a Nomad, if PING was going to be inaudible, but still bad enough to do damage.

[whozyer]

Just trying to understand things here and wanting the best for my engine. I have BAK, TFI and cobra true dual and have finally been running 87 octane and doing well. Today I am running back highway that is pretty hilly, running 65 steady taking the countryside in --a big hill --speed drops to 60 --give throttle and PING. First ping I have had in quite a while--backed off to no ping and cleared the hill at 60.I am wondering for the engine's well being should I have down shifted?

[whozyer]

Is the inaudible just below the audible??

[macmac]

Originally Posted by whozyer

Just trying to understand things here and wanting the best for my engine. I have BAK, TFI and cobra true dual and have finally been running 87 octane and doing well. Today I am running back highway that is pretty hilly, running 65 steady taking the countryside in --a big hill --speed drops to 60 --give throttle and PING. First ping I have had in quite a while--backed off to no ping and cleared the hill at 60.I am wondering for the engine's well being should I have down shifted?

Yes you should have shifted down. Nomads have 3 gears and 2 over drives.

Over drive 1 will get you the fastest speed a Nomad can go. apx 112 to 114 MPH. to get there you need to top out 3rd gear.

If at 112 / 114 you shift up to 5th or 2nd over drive the bike is going to slow down.

What you did was demand something the engine can't do. You can lift a 6 pound sledge hammer straight up off the ground with one hand, but you can't hold it from the same place on the end of the handle out straight on a horizontal plain probably. I sure can't.

I can cruise in 5th or 2nd overdrive as low as 50 MPH, but if i want to get into a faster speed I have to down shift twice too.

"Is the inaudible just below the audible??" I guess so. Humans can't hear it, knock sensors do. i worked with these on Volvo, Saab, and BMW.

All PING is doing some damage. The mix is lean and explodes before there is any spark, which in turn cuts bits of metals in the combustion chamber(s) at higher temps than are designed.

Maybe back 2 weeks now my 06 pinged hard. I was sort of stuck in a up hill deeply rutted dirt parking lots and in 2nd gear when i shut the engine off.

I couldn't get into first because the neutral finder wouldn't allow me. I had no choice but to go up hill slow in deep ruts and that engine pinged hard revolting my forcing it to do what it should not have to do.

Doing that once since the over all time I owned the bike June 06 did minimal damage. if i opened up the engine i would not be able to detect that damage, but I know there was damage. Maybe it was just a little crack, or a chip flame cut on the piston edge.

Pre-Ignition does the same thing, but i am not ware of this problem much anymore.

It used to be Japanese cars would run the engine backwards when the key was turned off. That made a sound a lot like PING but even worse since the moving parts came to a dead stop, then flipped over and ran them all backwards. That killed engines and was also caused from over heated cylinders, carbon build and over lean mix. In this case there was no spark at all. Once the key was OFF the engine was just dieseling backwards.

At 60 MPH in 5th your RPM was around 2,150 which is below the power band or power zone. At that RPM you can ask for a little more power but not a lot.

You could ask your wrist to hold that hammer out too, but I doubt you can do it and even if you can you couldn't do much work that way.

It's about the same thing work wise.

[davidhollinger]

Wow... So many variables, so many choices, but in reading through all this I have decided that when I can, I will get the 87 Non Ethanol since its just a filler anyway. Its pretty abundant down here and more and more stations are offering it again. Also I didnt know that topping out in 4th gear and going into 5th will slow it down. I was at 101 yesterday and pushing into 5th before having to back off. ( I love that long stretch going home). ANyway, I have seen many threads on this subject and I think (hope) I have it settled... either 87 Non E, or 93 premium to keep Hannah running smooth.

[blowndodge]

Yes Dave, I properly geared "touring" or "traveling" motorcycle should not go faster in it's top gear. It's meant for lower RPM's and mileage. Not speed.

[davidhollinger]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

Yes Dave, I properly geared "touring" or "traveling" motorcycle should not go faster in it's top gear. It's meant for lower RPM's and mileage. Not speed.

Brad, at 6'3 250 lbs and more grey than brown hair these days, I am not really built for speed or mileage but I manage!

[macmac]

Originally Posted by davidhollinger

Wow... So many variables, so many choices, but in reading through all this I have decided that when I can, I will get the 87 Non Ethanol since its just a filler anyway. Its pretty abundant down here and more and more stations are offering it again. Also I didnt know that topping out in 4th gear and going into 5th will slow it down. I was at 101 yesterday and pushing into 5th before having to back off. ( I love that long stretch going home). ANyway, I have seen many threads on this subject and I think (hope) I have it settled... either 87 Non E, or 93 premium to keep Hannah running smooth.

I have CRS when it comes to everyone elses bike. The right answer is it depends on the way your engine is set up. If it isb stock run high test and highest high test you can find.
The ECU is set too lean.

If you have a TFI and have that adjusted and nothing else (no other intake or exhaust mods) the book settings will not be what the settings on the TFI are. The book settings are a starting point not written in stone.


If you have a BAK and a after market exhaust with a TFI even then you settings should not need match book settings. The Dobeck people made this TFI module for a wide variety of bikes.

Ma Kawi has a set of pretty loose std spec and i am sure my engine spec varies from yours. Even then tooling wears and so no 2 identical engine are ever really identical.

What the TFI does is allow you to fool the ecu to thinking and believing a Lie.

The real lie was created by the EPA into thinking you can burn a little less fuel that the LAW of Nature allows.

In theory a proper fuel mix is a constant 14 parts air to 1 part fuel.

Your one part fuel isn't that with any ethanol, as that contains 10% filler. So that leans out the one part and the ECU isn't delivering enough at idle and low cross over RPM in the first place.

With a modified engine and a correct fuel mix in the first place, in the case of building that engine, a tech knows that adding more fuel is a trade off for more power.

In the instance of a tech adding more fuel and finding he gets more power AND better economy, it is living PROOF that the ECU is set WRONG.

When the tech does this over and over it proves it isn't a fluke. When many techs do this and all have similar findings it proves the fools at the EPA and the idiots who wrote the MOM were just fooling the would be buyers.

There isn't a 9:1 comp engine on the planet that requires Hi test, and hi test isn't better fuel. Hi Test is harder to ignite.

Hi test in NH winter has a different set of additives to, which make it easier to ignite.


My bike has a right side Cadman kit with a 9 x 2 inch round filter, V&H Baggers with baffles but the glass is probably gone. And a TFI.

It;s fuel is E- 10 at 87 octane unless I can find real gas and then it gets 87 octane real gas because there is no 86 or 85 octane gas in NH anywhere.

I have no idea if my engine could burn that well, but if i could buy any I would try it out.

[davidhollinger]

All stock engine and pipes Mac, no TFI...

[macmac]

Originally Posted by davidhollinger

All stock engine and pipes Mac, no TFI...

Burn hi test and keep the RPM's higher. As to me and CRS don't expect i will remember ting in the next 10 seconds and there after.

Hell I often ask strangers who the hell the pretty woman with me IS..... She says she is my wife. I think she is the same one i toilet trained with a tomahawk several years ago and the same one that knows how to carry 3 beer's at the same time if you count American well water in a beer can as a beer.

I sell tomahawk kits with loose heads that no amount of soaking will swell the the handle. Used with proper attention to detail you won't break the solid toilet seat. Once a wife has been properly trained she will never again jump with out looking.

[davidhollinger]

Well the experiment is over. I tried one tank of 93 this weekend and me and the wife rode 2 up with my buddy and his wife on his harley. The bike ran like crap the whole tankful and when I stopped at Citgo and went to 87 it immediatley quietened down and ran a lot smoother. This bike is just better on low grade.

[macmac]

There has gotta be a TFI, Cobra or PC III on that bike somewhere.

[davidhollinger]

I may take the seat and side covers off and video the thing and try to highlight the MANY things I dont know how to identify and see what you can see Mac...???

[macmac]

I will look if you do..... Don't zoom in real tight, as that can make it hard to ID where things are sometimes. The 2nd pic with the green wire is that way on another thread. The first pic shows about where the area is so that part helps.

Also the logo on the TFI is a sticker and it can fall off and leave a basic looking black box.

Mine has fallen off and I still have it, but didn't glue it on again..... yet.