Running Ethanol in your fuel....... - Page 3

fudd · 05-01-2014, 10:17 PM

I am not an expert of all things ethanol........there are many of those available with "facts" to support whichever side of the debate they stand on. Being from a rural community with an ethanol plant in its midst - as well as being an investor in the initial startup - I do have some bias when it comes to ethanol. The website http://www.chooseethanol.com/pages/quick-facts/ has some information that I believe supports the benefits of ethanol........and I fully anticipate the opposing side providing similar information to support their argument. Debate is a good thing

Silent Sam · 05-02-2014, 02:50 AM

Yep the moonshiners have fed the livestock on used mash for a thousand years...
And Ethanol is -capable of- making more horse power than gasoline (you just need higher compression heads..and some restant seals etc)

However..I love my beef products, and the cost of raising beef in the good ole USA has got so high I cant afford a decent steak anymore.. !

So I Researched it ! ...I am looking at moving to Montevideo ..

macmac · 05-02-2014, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Sam

Yep the moonshiners have fed the livestock on used mash for a thousand years...
And Ethanol is -capable of- making more horse power than gasoline (you just need higher compression heads..and some restant seals etc)

However..I love my beef products, and the cost of raising beef in the good ole USA has got so high I cant afford a decent steak anymore.. !

So I Researched it ! ...I am looking at moving to Montevideo ..

Sure i know dragsters run on Alcohol, but they have different engines by design. Older cars and these bikes are not meant to run on anything but gas. Try running a diesel in alcohol and see what happens, or gas in the same. It won't be pretty.

If we as a nation want engines that burn Ethanol then lets build engines made for it and at 100%. The rest is just another lie.

Back in the day I ran some devices that sort of burned water. The water became steam and took space adding to cooling and to compression. That steam cleaned valves and pistons too and I mean spotless. It was a tad finicky in New England Winters though.

Water can me made to burn, you just have to split the O from the 2 and get hydrogen and oxygen..

My beef is the lies........ Why should i pay for good gas and get crap that robs power, steals distance, and draws water into my tank? You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that. You just need gas for a mariner where real gas is sold and because it doesn't draw moisture from thin air.

I can buy real gas just over in Freedom at the pumps on the road side for a few cents more, and I can feel the difference and i can see the difference on my trip meter.

fudd · 05-02-2014, 01:51 PM

Much of the increase in the price of beef is due to a shortage in supply. There was a significant drought in '12 which caused many beef producers to thin their herds due to a lack of good pasture land available for grazing, hay, etc. They didnt just sell steers.....they had to liquidate much of their breeding stock as well. Since '12 much of this breeding herd has been replaced.....but it takes 285 days to get a calf from that cow. That calf then has to be fed out to a weight suitable for sale at market. As you can see a severe drought can have an impact on the price of beef at the grocery store for a long time. It will come back at some point.........I hope.

**Top Cat** · 05-02-2014, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fudd

Much of the increase in the price of beef is due to a shortage in supply. There was a significant drought in '12 which caused many beef producers to thin their herds due to a lack of good pasture land available for grazing, hay, etc. They didnt just sell steers.....they had to liquidate much of their breeding stock as well. Since '12 much of this breeding herd has been replaced.....but it takes 285 days to get a calf from that cow. That calf then has to be fed out to a weight suitable for sale at market. As you can see a severe drought can have an impact on the price of beef at the grocery store for a long time. It will come back at some point.........I hope.

It has been my experience that once there is an excuse to raise the price of a product the price does not come back down to anywhere near what the price was before the excuse

It is called greed

fudd · 05-02-2014, 02:45 PM

Might be a valid argument in many cases. However, the price paid for grain, livestock, commodities in general is basically determined by supply/demand which is reflected in the CBOT/Mercantile/other markets. Based on the anticipated supply of any given commodity contracts are bought/sold for any given month of the year. There are winners......and there are losers. When Farmer Joe raises a steer for you to eat it will be ready on a certain date. If Joe didnt forward contract that steer he will get what the price is that day......based on the contracts the purchaser has to fill. The petroleum market has a little different scenario in my opinion........the major oil corps have refining/pipeline/production divisions that basically sell to each other. Farmer Joe would have to own the grocery store/butcher shop/cattle farm it total to control his price. Yea I'm a little biased?

fudd · 05-02-2014, 03:12 PM

Greed is usually what kills a price rally in the commodity market.................too many "independent contractors" involved. When enough farmers put out extra crop in an effort to benefit from a price surge (see last year) the futures markets will usually reflect the increase in acreage by dropping the price.....anticipating an increase in production. Welcome to ag economics 101!

Silent Sam · 05-02-2014, 03:22 PM

I'd pretty much enjoy a steak and brew..while visiting with fudd ..I think he has some good input as to ag and beef production...and I (usta) have some inside info on the Oil/Gas Scam !..along with having both sides of my genetic history in the beef ranching business, right on top of the Nebraska end of the Ogalala Aquifer. (trouble's a brewing there !)

As for "fake Gasoline" you aint seen nothing, til you have observed California's Enviro-Mafia in action ! (the reason for the great decline of california)

fudd · 05-02-2014, 04:50 PM

Sounds like a good time Sam! I understand all of the hard feelings about the government subsidized ethanol industry............but still taking a 10% bite out of any funds that might be getting sent to the Middle East is good in my book. There are many industries supported by the government in some manner.......and many of these I myself dont agree with. This one I can take!

macmac · 05-02-2014, 04:59 PM

Sure sure ya wanna burn grain then get a t shirt like this

http://prntscr.com/3fkgyk

Silent Sam · 05-02-2014, 06:57 PM

macmac your t-shirt link caused my crac-puter to go into daa-zaww-vuuu reloads..I had to shut down and restart...

But then I'v only been hackin for 23 years....I know it will take time to learn the new fangled stuff...And then it's a Microsoft product..and i'm still trying to learn XP .... Wha ? Oh I Think I hear my Big Assed Bike Callin me from the garage....better go take a ride...

..Where was I ..Oh Yea.. fudd, I think it's kinda "funny' that the US now has this massive glut of Nat Gas (from fracking), and is in the process of going to a glut of crude oil (from fracking)..so the congress (at the direction of those who own congress now)...is actually snow-jobing "we the people" into thinking we should export gas to Ukraine...When in reality once approved/legislated..it will ALL go to China/Asia.and the domestic price here will rise by 500% (as the going rate in Asia is 5 times the rate we can buy it for here !

Who really believes..America will ever -be allowed- to recover whats been lost over the last 45 years.. ! ? .. I DONT

macmac · 05-02-2014, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silent Sam

macmac your t-shirt link caused my crac-puter to go into daa-zaww-vuuu reloads..I had to shut down and restart...

But then I'v only been hackin for 23 years....I know it will take time to learn the new fangled stuff...And then it's a Microsoft product..and i'm still trying to learn XP .... Wha ? Oh I Think I hear my Big Assed Bike Callin me from the garage....better go take a ride...

..Where was I ..Oh Yea.. fudd, I think it's kinda "funny' that the US now has this massive glut of Nat Gas (from fracking), and is in the process of going to a glut of crude oil (from fracking)..so the congress (at the direction of those who own congress now)...is actually snow-jobing "we the people" into thinking we should export gas to Ukraine...When in reality once approved/legislated..it will ALL go to China/Asia.and the domestic price here will rise by 500% (as the going rate in Asia is 5 times the rate we can buy it for here !

Who really believes..America will ever -be allowed- to recover whats been lost over the last 45 years.. ! ? .. I DONT

True enough, and why Bill Clinton is still laughing at us, meanwhile raping the ladies in the bank. To bad GWB didn't fix this. because the powers

that be now are simply insane. What makes this even better is the fact that the Russian supply western Euro with gasses and oils. And so 'We'

uh yeah 'We' need to send gasses and oils to whom? The Ukraine ? really?

What we have here is too many liars and not enough believers.

fudd · 05-02-2014, 09:16 PM

I might have a little clue about growing corn but the worldwide oil market befuddles me? When you talk about a 500% increase in domestic prices I cant see how it could ever happen........the laws of supply and demand have to take ahold somewhere. Dont see how transportation costs can go up that much without all other costs (labor/raw material/etc) also raising.......where will the market be for $15/gl gas? On the other hand........will sure make that good ol' ethanol a little easier for some of you to use! ;)

macmac · 05-03-2014, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fudd

I might have a little clue about growing corn but the worldwide oil market befuddles me? When you talk about a 500% increase in domestic prices I cant see how it could ever happen........the laws of supply and demand have to take ahold somewhere. Dont see how transportation costs can go up that much without all other costs (labor/raw material/etc) also raising.......where will the market be for $15/gl gas? On the other hand........will sure make that good ol' ethanol a little easier for some of you to use! ;)

Yeah I been in your area and into Nebraska they got corn. It grows on the railroad tracks too. But you won't ike it much when the govt forces you to try and burn eth in your diesel tractors and trucks, because that's next. I have no problem with cows burning corn. I have no problem with mt folks turning corn into booze

I have no problem with eth burning dragsters burning corn either, even if they have to rebuilt their engines after each 1 mile. They seem to like it.

I want the govt out of my bed room, out of my gun cabinet and out of my gas tanks from my truck to my chain saws. Really it's a simple thing. Eth mixed with gasoline in no more than a RIP OFF.

And at the pump there is no discount. We pay for 100% gas and then some, and get crappolla for it. I recall Good Gasoline. I was a tech and i am sort of a working x tech.

Silent Sam · 05-03-2014, 05:07 PM

Woopeee We are on a roll now....

As for the price of "fuel's'..it's not about how much goes outa the USA (now illegal under federal law to export -domestic- produced petro product's..THATS WHY THE Koch Brothers ..HQ'ed in Isreal... are..pushing the Key Stone XL Pipe Line thru the aquifer and across the USA.So NON-DOMESTIC OIL CAN BE REFINED AND EXPORTED FROM THE US Soil !leaving the usa with the risk..and pollution !)

When We The People have been -FURTHER Duped And Looted, by the international tribe of greed and evil...the price of fuels available to the 'Great Recovery"..IN The US..will again, go high enough that the 'average joe, can not get a start !..and as per the last 45 years norm...all the small operators across the nation will be pinched out !..leaving the entire "pot' of needed product's being sold by -THE FEW !

...Wooo eeee Here i Goooo, ... Some of us Old School Americans Remember when every little town in the nation with 1500 -2000 people living there had 4 or 5 gas stations..all providing repairs..tires..Hireing high school kids...also several grocery stores....and kids could get smmer jobs on farms and in every business (now ALL OF IT --REGULATED OUT !!)... who believes that all that 'regulation" was not-- Is Not..lobbied into legislation by the "top Floater" that have now taken it all !
And are now dumming down and driving down the late great middle class of the greatest nation in the history of mankind....
Where's it headed ? it's all headed directly into the rise to GODHOOD of the Few !...

Gotta slow down now....breath....uh huh...better go take a ride on my Big Assed Bike...

05-01-2014, 10:17 PM	#31
fudd Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: SE IL Posts: 183	I am not an expert of all things ethanol........there are many of those available with "facts" to support whichever side of the debate they stand on. Being from a rural community with an ethanol plant in its midst - as well as being an investor in the initial startup - I do have some bias when it comes to ethanol. The website http://www.chooseethanol.com/pages/quick-facts/ has some information that I believe supports the benefits of ethanol........and I fully anticipate the opposing side providing similar information to support their argument. Debate is a good thing Login or Register to Remove Ads
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05-02-2014, 04:59 PM	#40
macmac Sr. Contributor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Tamworth New Hampster 06 1600 Posts: 12,484	Sure sure ya wanna burn grain then get a t shirt like this http://prntscr.com/3fkgyk __________________ 06 1600 Nomad Just call me Mac molon labe come and get it
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05-02-2014, 06:57 PM	#41
Silent Sam Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: On The Shakey Side Posts: 2,501	macmac your t-shirt link caused my crac-puter to go into daa-zaww-vuuu reloads..I had to shut down and restart... But then I'v only been hackin for 23 years....I know it will take time to learn the new fangled stuff...And then it's a Microsoft product..and i'm still trying to learn XP .... Wha ? Oh I Think I hear my Big Assed Bike Callin me from the garage....better go take a ride... ..Where was I ..Oh Yea.. fudd, I think it's kinda "funny' that the US now has this massive glut of Nat Gas (from fracking), and is in the process of going to a glut of crude oil (from fracking)..so the congress (at the direction of those who own congress now)...is actually snow-jobing "we the people" into thinking we should export gas to Ukraine...When in reality once approved/legislated..it will ALL go to China/Asia.and the domestic price here will rise by 500% (as the going rate in Asia is 5 times the rate we can buy it for here ! Who really believes..America will ever -be allowed- to recover whats been lost over the last 45 years.. ! ? .. I DONT Last edited by Silent Sam; 05-02-2014 at 07:00 PM.
	0

05-02-2014, 02:50 AM	#32
Silent Sam Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: On The Shakey Side Posts: 2,501	Yep the moonshiners have fed the livestock on used mash for a thousand years... And Ethanol is -capable of- making more horse power than gasoline (you just need higher compression heads..and some restant seals etc) However..I love my beef products, and the cost of raising beef in the good ole USA has got so high I cant afford a decent steak anymore.. ! So I Researched it ! ...I am looking at moving to Montevideo ..
	0

05-02-2014, 01:51 PM	#34
fudd Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: SE IL Posts: 183	Much of the increase in the price of beef is due to a shortage in supply. There was a significant drought in '12 which caused many beef producers to thin their herds due to a lack of good pasture land available for grazing, hay, etc. They didnt just sell steers.....they had to liquidate much of their breeding stock as well. Since '12 much of this breeding herd has been replaced.....but it takes 285 days to get a calf from that cow. That calf then has to be fed out to a weight suitable for sale at market. As you can see a severe drought can have an impact on the price of beef at the grocery store for a long time. It will come back at some point.........I hope.
	0

05-02-2014, 02:45 PM	#36
fudd Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: SE IL Posts: 183	Might be a valid argument in many cases. However, the price paid for grain, livestock, commodities in general is basically determined by supply/demand which is reflected in the CBOT/Mercantile/other markets. Based on the anticipated supply of any given commodity contracts are bought/sold for any given month of the year. There are winners......and there are losers. When Farmer Joe raises a steer for you to eat it will be ready on a certain date. If Joe didnt forward contract that steer he will get what the price is that day......based on the contracts the purchaser has to fill. The petroleum market has a little different scenario in my opinion........the major oil corps have refining/pipeline/production divisions that basically sell to each other. Farmer Joe would have to own the grocery store/butcher shop/cattle farm it total to control his price. Yea I'm a little biased?
	0

05-02-2014, 03:12 PM	#37
fudd Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: SE IL Posts: 183	Greed is usually what kills a price rally in the commodity market.................too many "independent contractors" involved. When enough farmers put out extra crop in an effort to benefit from a price surge (see last year) the futures markets will usually reflect the increase in acreage by dropping the price.....anticipating an increase in production. Welcome to ag economics 101!
	0

05-02-2014, 03:22 PM	#38
Silent Sam Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: On The Shakey Side Posts: 2,501	I'd pretty much enjoy a steak and brew..while visiting with fudd ..I think he has some good input as to ag and beef production...and I (usta) have some inside info on the Oil/Gas Scam !..along with having both sides of my genetic history in the beef ranching business, right on top of the Nebraska end of the Ogalala Aquifer. (trouble's a brewing there !) As for "fake Gasoline" you aint seen nothing, til you have observed California's Enviro-Mafia in action ! (the reason for the great decline of california)
	0

05-02-2014, 04:50 PM	#39
fudd Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: SE IL Posts: 183	Sounds like a good time Sam! I understand all of the hard feelings about the government subsidized ethanol industry............but still taking a 10% bite out of any funds that might be getting sent to the Middle East is good in my book. There are many industries supported by the government in some manner.......and many of these I myself dont agree with. This one I can take!
	0

05-02-2014, 09:16 PM	#43
fudd Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: SE IL Posts: 183	I might have a little clue about growing corn but the worldwide oil market befuddles me? When you talk about a 500% increase in domestic prices I cant see how it could ever happen........the laws of supply and demand have to take ahold somewhere. Dont see how transportation costs can go up that much without all other costs (labor/raw material/etc) also raising.......where will the market be for $15/gl gas? On the other hand........will sure make that good ol' ethanol a little easier for some of you to use! ;)
	0

05-03-2014, 05:07 PM	#45
Silent Sam Sr. Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: On The Shakey Side Posts: 2,501	Woopeee We are on a roll now.... As for the price of "fuel's'..it's not about how much goes outa the USA (now illegal under federal law to export -domestic- produced petro product's..THATS WHY THE Koch Brothers ..HQ'ed in Isreal... are..pushing the Key Stone XL Pipe Line thru the aquifer and across the USA.So NON-DOMESTIC OIL CAN BE REFINED AND EXPORTED FROM THE US Soil !leaving the usa with the risk..and pollution !) When We The People have been -FURTHER Duped And Looted, by the international tribe of greed and evil...the price of fuels available to the 'Great Recovery"..IN The US..will again, go high enough that the 'average joe, can not get a start !..and as per the last 45 years norm...all the small operators across the nation will be pinched out !..leaving the entire "pot' of needed product's being sold by -THE FEW ! ...Wooo eeee Here i Goooo, ... Some of us Old School Americans Remember when every little town in the nation with 1500 -2000 people living there had 4 or 5 gas stations..all providing repairs..tires..Hireing high school kids...also several grocery stores....and kids could get smmer jobs on farms and in every business (now ALL OF IT --REGULATED OUT !!)... who believes that all that 'regulation" was not-- Is Not..lobbied into legislation by the "top Floater" that have now taken it all ! And are now dumming down and driving down the late great middle class of the greatest nation in the history of mankind.... Where's it headed ? it's all headed directly into the rise to GODHOOD of the Few !... Gotta slow down now....breath....uh huh...better go take a ride on my Big Assed Bike...
	0