Question for Obama Haters

[ponch]

Originally Posted by canedriver

Umm thats not spinning when I say he isnt the first president to do that.

Hell look at members of the senate who hold house bills hostage until they tack on little bill to make money on the side. I am just saying that's not a valid argument. It has been done before. Maybe not to the tune of 2 trillion dollars but what other bill has effected something that's equal to 17% of gdp. Hell want to compare some more? What bill has ever been passed to address something that's accounting for almost 50% of bankruptcies?

Medical care as it stands right now outpaces wages and inflation.

I get your point of it doesnt matter if they did it then why should he do it. I dont agree with it but i understand the point. My question does that sentiment now make it ok NOT to try and fix something that is obviously broken?

Same reasoning with the question of name a government entity that has ever turned a profit. Just because of past failures does it then make it ok NOT to try and address a need? Healthcare isn't a want it is a need.

Off topic though, I just wanted to know if it changes your view of Obama. I think my answer has been given.

Healthcare is the wrong word. At one time it was called medical insurance. What it is about now is who pays the medical bills and who decides medical policies.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

Changes our view? If he tried to balance the budget it would. If he quit apologizing to countries about our role in the world it would.

Healthcare trying to address a need? by who's definition is it a need? I say it's a "want" not a need. The constitution protects Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness; Not healthcare. If a person makes the decision to smoke and that leads to lung cancer and you expect "Healthcare" or "American Taxpayers" to pay for it then your really different than the way I feel.

We are talking about 15% of the population without insurance deciding what is best for everyone else. The truth is, any third party payor system is usually taken advantage and drives up costs. It doesn't matter if it's medical insurance, car insurance or student loans for that matter. How about easy to get mortgages? Same thing.

The problems are economic. We can't sustain our obligations even if OC goes away. To put it another way, you could tax everyone 100% this year and it wouldn't cover the budget. How does that work? Can you imagine if people ran their households the same way?

People don't like the current situation, but they also don't want to "lose" anything. We've become a society that expects things from the government, largesse if you will, and we like being bribed with our own money. In that sense we deserve what we have received.


Someday the merry go round will stop as printing more money doesn't work.

[glwilson]

Originally Posted by canedriver

Same reasoning with the question of name a government entity that has ever turned a profit. Just because of past failures does it then make it ok NOT to try and address a need?

"Continuing to do the same thing again and again while expecting a different result". The definition of INSANITY!

[glwilson]

There is no such thing as a "need" to be covered by the government except for those issues limited strictly to the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

"Life" does not include taxpayers providing healthcare! That is up to the individual to provide for them self.

[glwilson]

Oh yeah... In case anyone didn't know. I cannot stand Obama or anything his destructive-ways provide.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by glwilson

There is no such thing as a "need" to be covered by the government except for those issues limited strictly to the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

"Life" does not include taxpayers providing healthcare! That is up to the individual to provide for them self.

Didn't you know we're entitled to the government paying our bills?

[Sin City Stan]

Originally Posted by canedriver

Sorry I couldn't think of a more catchy title for the post.

What happens if the supreme court holds up Obamacare? Does it stop the rants of him violating the constitution or does it bring up conspiracy theories?

I now know who you are. You're that kid with the stick who would whack a beehive for something to do.

[NRiderUSA]

Originally Posted by Sin City Stan

I now know who you are. You're that kid with the stick who would whack a beehive for something to do.

Or one of the many cult members who if told by Obama that his pecker was the fountain of youth would get in the line to drink from it... then call you a racist when you refuse to participate. :)

[dmyers]

My dad is in a home under hospice care now. He owned his own business most of his life, Retired with plenty of money had insurance out the wasue and he will die without a penney to his name.
My MOM had a operation today to remove a toomer from her liver. She has insurance and it will still cost her $700.00 out of pocket as long as there are no complications. She had a burst appendix 3 months ago that ended up costing her 5 grand
YES THERE IS A HEALTHCARE PROBLEM
If private industry cant or wont fix it then the gov will have to try.
not run it regulate it

[blowndodge]

dmyers. I'm sorry your folks are in a dire condition I truly am. Life isn't always fair to everyone. there are birth defects, blindness at birth and many other "cruel" outcomes we all face.

My mom worked her whole life and retired as an RN at 64 years of age in 1995. She kept up medical by paying into it and came down with glioblastoma (the most deadly form of brain cancer) and died quickly. Her treatment was a hassle as her insurance knew that no matter how long they tried to extend her life, "glio" is always fatal. I learned to deal with lifes hard facts and didn't think there is a conspiracy in the medical care industry. And no, I feel the taxpayers spending hundreds of thousands of dollars (it IS the taxpayers money and NOT the Federal Gov't) on her is not right.

I don't understand liberalism at all. Against the death penalty but pro abortion. Extreme Naturalist and Environmentalist and think all the animals got it right and mankind came along and screwed everything up. Yet in the wild, say lions and tigers and wolves target the "disabled" and diseased animal thereby making the remaining heard stronger genetically.

What argument are you really going to stand by? By their own standards Liberals should be allowing the sick and weak and diseased with genetic heart, liver, lung, brain, blood problems die off and remove them from the rest of the heard to make mankind better.

If you say as humans that's not how we should treat other human beings then you drifting into "Christianity" theology. And we all know how liberals feel about Christians....

[NRiderUSA]

Have you read Obama's health care stuff? Do a little searching on the "Death Panel" issues raised when they were stuffing this up our butts.
It had to do with a part in it and I do believe Obama himself even said something on the lines of "We" would have to determine if the cost versus how much life they had left would be cost effective........ making them comfortable might be the best answer (AKA give them a shot of morphine and let them fade out they werent going to live much longer anyway)

Welcome to the Socialists view of human life value....

No one is saying health care doesnt need attention, as a matter of fact thats how they half-truthed it into being was the statistics saying that most Americans do believe health care needs reformed..... they just conveniently forgot to mention the other polls that shows a higher number of Americans did not believe Obama care was the answer and didnt want that.
(I know thats because the majority in that poll were racists versus the majority in the poll they spun werent<Cough>)

Anyway heres a little quote from just one article on the subject that might interest you ............

He added: "Medicare is going to have to decide what it's going to pay for. And at least for starters, it's going to have to decide which medical procedures are not effective at all and should not be paid for at all. In other words, it should have endorsed the [death] panel that was part of the healthcare reform.’"

Read more on Newsmax.com: Obama Embraces 'Death Panel' Concept in Medicare Rule

Point being, right now you have the right to live and go into debt... in the very near future if this gets through.... sorry, your too old to invest that kind of money in, here have a shot of morphine it wont hurt for long.

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by canedriver

"Hell look at members of the senate who hold house bills hostage until they tack on little bill to make money on the side."

"What bill has ever been passed to address something that's accounting for almost 50% of bankruptcies?"

"Just because of past failures does it then make it ok NOT to try and address a need?"

Cain - your very arguments above are precisely why "We the People" shouldn't entrust the feds to run healthcare. They are not saints - they are corrupted or corruptible by special interests...ALL OF THEM. And frankly, there is no wisdom in your comment about "Just because of past failures does it then make it ok NOT to try and address a need?" Let the feds show us that they can efficiently run an existing program before adding another boondoggle to the fray.

[glwilson]

If our ancestors could see "us" complaining about healthcare, and a program that covers a lot of it, they would be shocked.

Look "healthcare" (and the misinformed notion that it is a "right") is a fairly new "thing" relative to history. The problem is it only succeeds when there is a continued growth of the "contributors" to pay-for the "takers".

(Sounds a bit like a Ponzi-scheme to me.)

Well, guess what. Over the last 30 years the politicians knew there would be a problem when it was discovered the population in the U.S. stagnated for a fairly long period of time. This was going to be bad news for any "social" program that depended on a continually growing population.

But did you hear many politicians sound the alarm-bell to these social schemes future failure? (Yes, their eventual failure has been known for 30 years now.)

Instead politicians have been busy making a system that benefits them first, the most, and for the longest. American, in a nutshell, has been screwed-over by its politicians.

Shouldn't be a surprise given that many generations never took the time to understand what the government was doing. In fact, discussing politics is considered taboo.

Why is it that you are not to discuss religion and politics -- when in fact, these two subjects affect us more than anything else in determining our future? Politics and religion are often responsible for wars; death; destruction; and social controls over mankind worldwide.

Seems to me... there needs to be more discussions on these matters.

Life has no guarantees and is a b!tch. Fasten your seat belts, put a helmet on, and hang-on -- because you are not getting out of this alive. That much I guarantee.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by dmyers

My dad is in a home under hospice care now. He owned his own business most of his life, Retired with plenty of money had insurance out the wasue and he will die without a penney to his name.
My MOM had a operation today to remove a toomer from her liver. She has insurance and it will still cost her $700.00 out of pocket as long as there are no complications. She had a burst appendix 3 months ago that ended up costing her 5 grand
YES THERE IS A HEALTHCARE PROBLEM
If private industry cant or wont fix it then the gov will have to try.
not run it regulate it

Your conclusion is ridiculous and feckless.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by blowndodge

dmyers. I'm sorry your folks are in a dire condition I truly am. Life isn't always fair to everyone. there are birth defects, blindness at birth and many other "cruel" outcomes we all face.

My mom worked her whole life and retired as an RN at 64 years of age in 1995. She kept up medical by paying into it and came down with glioblastoma (the most deadly form of brain cancer) and died quickly. Her treatment was a hassle as her insurance knew that no matter how long they tried to extend her life, "glio" is always fatal. I learned to deal with lifes hard facts and didn't think there is a conspiracy in the medical care industry. And no, I feel the taxpayers spending hundreds of thousands of dollars (it IS the taxpayers money and NOT the Federal Gov't) on her is not right.

I don't understand liberalism at all. Against the death penalty but pro abortion. Extreme Naturalist and Environmentalist and think all the animals got it right and mankind came along and screwed everything up. Yet in the wild, say lions and tigers and wolves target the "disabled" and diseased animal thereby making the remaining heard stronger genetically.

What argument are you really going to stand by? By their own standards Liberals should be allowing the sick and weak and diseased with genetic heart, liver, lung, brain, blood problems die off and remove them from the rest of the heard to make mankind better.

If you say as humans that's not how we should treat other human beings then you drifting into "Christianity" theology. And we all know how liberals feel about Christians....

Amen brother and to crystalize one of your points, the progressives (my term for liberals) believe that evolution stopped 10,000 years ago and now it is up to man to manage it. what hubris.