MSF Training

[waterman]

Well, just finished a two day beginners training class. Took it with my wife who has not driven a motorcycle. Was a good time and did learn a few bad habits that I have and hopefully have them temporarily fixed. The instructor was excellent.

The wife passed. She did the figure 8 better than most, even me. The instructor was standing next to me and said "I can't believe that she can go so slow without dropping the bike." Me, well, didn't miss a question (common sense) on the test and only had one issue on the driving test. Keep looking thru the corners idiot.

Would suggest that anyone who hasn't taken it to take it. Also planning on taking the experienced course next year if I can.

[schoeney]

Great to see you both did it. I took the "intermediate" course. Out here they only have beginner + intermediate.

I thought I knew it all...but after taking the course I was shaking my head wondering how I got by with all my bad habits. Especially not keeping my head up and looking way ahead into corners. Now I practice it all the time....what a difference + confidence booster.

One guy in my class had been riding for many years...had a brand new V Strom....he dropped it doing figure 8's during the test...automatic fail.

We all felt bad for him.

[coacha]

Took the beginner course last December, great experience for sure. Trying to get the wife to do the beginner course too. Have to look into the intermediate one.

[ells]

Good going Waterman, on all accounts. Congrats to your wife. Now, get her a bike and let's ride.

[waterman]

Originally Posted by Ells

Good going Waterman, on all accounts. Congrats to your wife. Now, get her a bike and let's ride.

Got one already. Well a scooter. Found a Suzuki Burgman 400 last year. The dealer had a fire earlier that year and the bike had some smoke damage so we got a really good deal on it. Not real fast out of the block but it will get up and move. Kind of a fun alternative to the motorcycle for short trips.

[burkazoid]

Originally Posted by CoachA

Trying to get the wife to do the beginner course too.

Same here. She has no interest in being a rider, and is content to be a passenger. But, I told her there might come a time when she has to take the reins due to an emergency. Riding little 125 & 250cc bikes can't compare to handling the Nomad, but at least she would get a lot of questions she has about what it is like to be a rider.

[waterman]

Originally Posted by BurKaZoiD

Same here. She has no interest in being a rider, and is content to be a passenger. But, I told her there might come a time when she has to take the reins due to an emergency. Riding little 125 & 250cc bikes can't compare to handling the Nomad, but at least she would get a lot of questions she has about what it is like to be a rider.

Actually, I think the training is very good for passengers also. They begin to understand what the reactions of the driver are to certain situations. The passenger can also become a second set of eyes for the driver and now they know what the thought process is so they can help the driver. Also, you never know after they get the feel for being a driver. They may want to do it themselves.

My wife really liked parts of the driving exercises and had fun. When we do go on longer trips she has said she wants to be the passenger. Why? So I can just sit back and enjoy the views. Not a problem there.

[dantama]

Originally Posted by waterman

Actually, I think the training is very good for passengers also. They begin to understand what the reactions of the driver are to certain situations. The passenger can also become a second set of eyes for the driver and now they know what the thought process is so they can help the driver. Also, you never know after they get the feel for being a driver. They may want to do it themselves.

My wife really liked parts of the driving exercises and had fun. When we do go on longer trips she has said she wants to be the passenger. Why? So I can just sit back and enjoy the views. Not a problem there.

I can see a few good points of having a passenger take the course like you mentioned. For the first few years my wife kept wanting me to not lean so much on freeway curves going up to Park City Utah (not like you should just go really slow for every curve on the freeway). She had a hard time understanding that I couldn't just lean less.

Another point is, if the rider has a medical emergency, and the passenger knew what to do, they could reach around the rider and take the controls and bring the bike to a stop. They might drop it once it gets stopped, but rather than going out of control at 70mph they would be dropping it at 0mph. But that only works if they know what to do once they do reach around. All they need to do is pull in the clutch and either coast or brake to a stop; but if you don't know how to counter-steer, it won't likely work.

[flightdoc]

Hey Dan,

Moving along at highway speed...that would be one hell of a passenger to first: realize anything is wrong with the driver and two: be able to reach around the driver , take the controls (including the pedals) and bring the bike to a stop of any kind. All within what...2-3 seconds.
cell phone: 911 works good.

vin

[dantama]

Originally Posted by flightdoc

Hey Dan,

Moving along at highway speed...that would be one hell of a passenger to first: realize anything is wrong with the driver and two: be able to reach around the driver , take the controls (including the pedals) and bring the bike to a stop of any kind. All within what...2-3 seconds.
cell phone: 911 works good.

vin

vin, I'm thinking you must have misread that. I'm not saying a passenger drive anyone to the hospital or anything. I said reach around and pull in the clutch and either brake or coast to a stop. No foot controls needed.

So if you were a passenger, and all of a sudden the rider went limp and slouched onto the tank, would you be pulling out a cell phone and calling 911, or reaching around and pulling in the clutch and steering to a safe stop :)

If you could do it, it would be wise for all passengers to know how to do it. My wife can't; taking the MSF class and learning what you would learn there would be enough for her to have a good chance of safely doing it.

The alternative is the rider slumps and the passenger has a very bad ride off the road, or into the barrier at speed.

A site I used to go to had a video of a rider faking it, and the passenger doing just what I describe. Little woman, big rider, on a Goldwing.

Perhaps even with an MSF class on a few could do it, but they'd have a lot better ride than the alternative.

[flightdoc]

I didn't misread it. I'm trying to envision it and don't come up with your conclusion or suggestion.
As far as the demo you describe. It's always easier when you're expecting it to happen. That's one of the reasons I recommend that students I teach do things like practice braking on a regular basis. When you're not expecting it, it happens much faster. The more you practice the more prepared you are.
I just can't imagine a passenger being able to do what you stated, especially when they weren't aware the driver had something going on. It only takes a second or two for the bke to go down.

vin

[dantama]

Originally Posted by flightdoc

I didn't misread it. I'm trying to envision it and don't come up with your conclusion or suggestion.............I just can't imagine a passenger being able to do what you stated, especially when they weren't aware the driver had something going on. It only takes a second or two for the bke to go down.

vin

I think we would all agree that if a person were in a passenger car, they would notice if the driver passed out. We would all probably agree that grabbing the wheel and steering out of oncoming traffic would be wise.

I'm saying the logic is just as valid on a bike. The difference is that more passengers are adept at grabbing the steering wheel in a car, than they are at knowing how to counter-steer a bike to a stop.

As I stated, there is a video out of a demonstration of a woman reaching around a simulated rider on a gold wing who passed out, and she takes the controls.

That gets us to awareness and time. A rider who passes out will go limp and it will be very apparent that something is not right and they aren't really just changing lanes. That takes care of awareness.

That leaves time. I went out on my bike on an empty stretch of freeway and let go of the bars and didn't use my body to steer at all. I moved out of my lane in 4 seconds, and was in danger of going off the freeway in 9 seconds.

Look at your second hand and picture the rider going limp, would you reach around and grab the bars during that 9 seconds?

It is all for not if the passenger freaks out when they try to go left and the bike goes right. But if they understand how a bike steers, all they have to go is reach around to the bars and pull in the clutch, then coast to the side of the road and let it drop.

I've been a passenger for about 5 minutes total, so I'm not likely to be in this situation, but if I was a passenger and the rider passed out..............I'd reach around and steer to a stop. Same as I would in a car.

If nobody else wants to, they don't have to. But it can be done.

[flightdoc]

I would like to clarify my opinion on this subject. My opinion is: I doubt that if a driver was to become unconscious or incapcitated to the point of not having the ability to control the bike and could not communicate that to their passenger ,then the time it would take the passenger to assertain the situation and then react to it would not have enough time to get hold of the controls and slow the bike down to the 1-2 mph mentioned. I think it is possible for the "one in a million" to happen also. I have not looked at the video but I know I could accomplish this if I knew in advance it was going to happen and the fact that I'm a driver. I doubt a passenger could do it if they had no idea of what was happening.

This is of course my opinion. I hope everyone understands.

thanks

vin

[nomad561]

I managed to get in a class this weekend.
Looking forward to it

[waterman]

Originally Posted by Wandering Nomad "Darksider"

I managed to get in a class this weekend.
Looking forward to it

Good luck on the class and enjoy those "little" bikes.