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Old 04-10-2017, 02:57 PM   #1
Toku57   Toku57 is offline
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Anyone looked at an Indian Chieftain or Roadmaster?

I'm looking at getting a used Voyager next year (preferably one already Ivan-ized), but am also considering a used Indian Chieftain or Roadmaster if I find one in sufficiently good shape that I can afford. I recently had an opportunity to ride the '17 Chieftain and Roadmaster, but I've yet to try a Voyager or even see one in person. So I thought I'd see if any Kawi 1700 bagger owners have also tried an Indian Chieftain or Roadmaster and could answer comparison questions like:

1) Engine performance
2) Handling and cornering
3) Quality/sturdiness of bags
4) Overall build quality/fit and finish impressions
5) Value (Recognizing the large price disparity between Voyagers and the Chieftain or Roadmaster.)



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Old 04-10-2017, 05:59 PM   #2
gv550   gv550 is offline
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I own a Voyager and have driven several 111 Indian bikes.
The Indian has more power and torque, and better chassis and suspension.
Voyager has a better fairing ( frame mounted), significantly better brakes (KACT), better shifting (2011 on), liquid cooling, onboard diagnostics.
Quality........ the Voyager will keep going and going and going.... note my mileage. A couple 111s that I rode had an engine knock, read their forums, it's a common complaint and Polaris has not been helping to resolve the issue. Also lots of complaints about poor paint.
I have stock original bags and trunk on my bike, they work fine and hold a lot of stuff but they appear and feel flimsy compared to Indian and Harley.
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:26 PM   #3
alwhite00   alwhite00 is offline
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My buddy bought a 16 roadmaster an put about 5,000 miles on it in a couple months, great looking bike. I really like the power windshield and remote locking saddlebags & trunk.
 
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Old 04-10-2017, 08:30 PM   #4
Zkovach   Zkovach is offline
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Yes the Darkhorse chieftain is my favorite bike ever.... just gorgeous but a little out of my price point. Hell just paid off my 2013 vaquero. My buddy bought the Dark horse and I rode it last weekend. Has A LOT OF POWER!!!!! Wonderful ride!
 
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:52 AM   #5
Toku57   Toku57 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gv550 View Post
I own a Voyager and have driven several 111 Indian bikes.
The Indian has more power and torque, and better chassis and suspension.
Voyager has a better fairing ( frame mounted), significantly better brakes (KACT), better shifting (2011 on), liquid cooling, onboard diagnostics.
Quality........ the Voyager will keep going and going and going.... note my mileage. A couple 111s that I rode had an engine knock, read their forums, it's a common complaint and Polaris has not been helping to resolve the issue. Also lots of complaints about poor paint.
I have stock original bags and trunk on my bike, they work fine and hold a lot of stuff but they appear and feel flimsy compared to Indian and Harley.
Garry - great feedback. You've confirmed my hunch that the Voyager's real strong suit is it's bang for the buck. And your mileage is probably the best testimony of all - holy cow!! I've become aware of the 111 engine knock issue and a recent review on Revilla's Common Tread of the new Chieftain Elite and Limited mentioned it could be improperly machined oil pump gerotors, but Polaris has sort of shrugged it off by essentially just saying "sometimes big bikes just make some engine noise".

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Originally Posted by alwhite00 View Post
My buddy bought a 16 roadmaster an put about 5,000 miles on it in a couple months, great looking bike. I really like the power windshield and remote locking saddlebags & trunk.
Yeah, alwhite I liked the power windshield and remote locking system too. As for looks I gotta admit that's a huge draw - the valanced fenders and love the warbonnet light on the front fender - they really stand out. But I gotta say, I think Voyagers are really nice looking too. They may not have quite the "Wow" appeal of a big Indian or a Vaquero, but certain elements like the dash and rear trunk light I like even more than the big Indians. The Voyager certainly appeals to me more than H-D tourers, which are too conservative for my tastes.

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Originally Posted by Zkovach View Post
Yes the Darkhorse chieftain is my favorite bike ever.... just gorgeous but a little out of my price point. Hell just paid off my 2013 vaquero. My buddy bought the Dark horse and I rode it last weekend. Has A LOT OF POWER!!!!! Wonderful ride!
Zkovach - Indian was offering leasing, and they implied you could do a high mileage lease without paying out the wazoo like you would with a high mileage car lease. However, my local Indian dealer said the leasing company they were using went out of business, and even before that, they had just offered leasing as an alternative for those with poor credit that couldn't get financing. HD offers leases on new and used bikes, and it seems Indian, especially with Polaris' financial muscle, should be able to do the same. Even for a used Chieftain or Roadmaster I'd almost certainly have to finance over 5 years, but could potentially finance a used Voyager for just 2 or 3. I don't want to finance a car and a bike at the same time, so having a shorter payment window on a Voyager would take the pressure off my car having to last me an extra 2-3 years, even though it's super reliable.

Final question - are any of you guys' bikes Ivanized, and therefore can compare it with a stock Indian 111 model performance-wise?



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Old 04-11-2017, 11:48 AM   #6
gv550   gv550 is offline
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I'm Ivanized, but the 111 (and 107 Harley) will still pull smartly away from me.
'Bang for the buck' is Voyagers strong point, it will never have the prestige of other brands and it won't win races but it is comfortable, reliable and it keeps going and going and going......................
Edit... One more thing, Indian uses a plastic gear to drive the oil pump, do a search on that and learn how well it worked in Vulcan 1500 back in the day. Voyager has a steel gear driving both oil pumps and the water pump, can't break it!
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:51 PM   #7
Toku57   Toku57 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gv550 View Post
I'm Ivanized, but the 111 (and 107 Harley) will still pull smartly away from me.
'Bang for the buck' is Voyagers strong point, it will never have the prestige of other brands and it won't win races but it is comfortable, reliable and it keeps going and going and going......................
Edit... One more thing, Indian uses a plastic gear to drive the oil pump, do a search on that and learn how well it worked in Vulcan 1500 back in the day. Voyager has a steel gear driving both oil pumps and the water pump, can't break it!
Garry - thanks again. I think I could sacrifice a little quickness for reliability. That plastic gear driving the 111 oil pump sure ain't sexy in my book ! Found this very informative write up about this issue by someone from AMS Moto Machine.

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Old 04-11-2017, 04:36 PM   #8
gv550   gv550 is offline
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Originally Posted by Toku57 View Post
Garry - thanks again. I think I could sacrifice a little quickness for reliability. That plastic gear driving the 111 oil pump sure ain't sexy in my book ! Found this very informative write up about this issue by someone from AMS Moto Machine.
Interesting read.
Gotta pull the engine and split the cases to get to the oil pump on a 111, on a Voyager just remove the alternator cover and the oil pumps can be removed (engine in frame, cases together)
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:45 PM   #9
twowheeladdict   twowheeladdict is offline
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Compared to the Voyager, you will never find an Indian in the same ballpark pricewise.

If Kawasaki would have made some improvements to the Voyager and offered a color I wanted, I would have replaced my '10 Voyager with another instead of replacing it with the Road Glide Ultra. The Voyager is the best bang for the buck touring motorcycle out there.

My real negatives with the Voyager that couldn't be solved easily with after market parts, were chasing down body rattles, and not being able to quick release the tour pack.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:23 PM   #10
Toku57   Toku57 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gv550 View Post
Interesting read.
Gotta pull the engine and split the cases to get to the oil pump on a 111, on a Voyager just remove the alternator cover and the oil pumps can be removed (engine in frame, cases together)
Yeah, that's nuts that getting to the oil pump essentially requires disassembling then rebuilding the engine. Be interesting to see how long they last with that issue.

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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
Compared to the Voyager, you will never find an Indian in the same ballpark pricewise.

If Kawasaki would have made some improvements to the Voyager and offered a color I wanted, I would have replaced my '10 Voyager with another instead of replacing it with the Road Glide Ultra. The Voyager is the best bang for the buck touring motorcycle out there.

My real negatives with the Voyager that couldn't be solved easily with after market parts, were chasing down body rattles, and not being able to quick release the tour pack.
The tour pack quick release is a nice feature I like about the Roadmaster. You can essentially turn them into a Chieftain in a matter of minutes.
 
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:26 AM   #11
Trucker Tony   Trucker Tony is offline
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Grin

I test rode a Chieftain, nice ride decent power. Love the looks and comfort of the Chieftain. My 2011 Vaquero is just as comfortable and has adequate power. But price point was a big factor In my decision. My bike is not new, just got it 5 weeks ago with 1800 miles on it, but at 200 bucks less a month it fit my budget. Chieftain is a beautiful bike but almost as expensive as owning a Harley. I want to ride my bike not have it sit in the garage because of cost of maintenance or parts.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:05 PM   #12
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I had a Vaq, put 100,000 trouble free miles in FIVE years (cept for 2 sets of warped rotors) b4 I sold it and gots me this CDH.



The Indian engine is nuthin special, with my custom intake and modified exhaust my Indian makes the same H.P./Tork as my Vaq did AT 95,000 MILES!!!

The CDH out handles the Vaq hands down, absolutely no comparison, and that was with LOTS of $$$ spent on the Vaq in suspension/handling improvements.

Wind/rain protection on the Indian is FRIKKIN HORRIBLE, the Vaq has a MUCH better fairing for those aspects, tho the adjustable w/s on the Indian is nice to lower when runnin round town. The saddlebags on the Indian SUCK BIGTIME. All the stuff that came out of the Vaq's bags won't fit into the Indian's bags.

The Indian has a far superior audio system and I don't have to spend all that $$$ I did on upgrading the Vaq's system, but when u spend $20,000+ that is to be expected.

I have gotten more compliments on my CDH since I bought it in June 2016 than I did the whole 5 years I had the Vaq, but that is just an observation. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and very quickly I grew to NOT like the Vaq's front cowl (NOT a pretty face, tho that is just my opinion) and LOVED the ass on the Vaq. But when I look at the CDH at ANY angle, my face smiles.....LOTS.

AVG MPG so far is bout the same as the Vaq, tho the CDH will NEVER be as efficient of an engine as that 1700 Kawi engine. I look at the Indian engine as an old lump of coal!

And yes....I ALREADY have warped the rotors on the Indian a lot sooner than I did on ANY Jap bike, as I have found there are LOTS of made in China stuff (like wheels) on the Indians.

The Indian's overall fit and finish is no where's near as good as a Jap bike, there were SO MANY gaps in the fender area at the rear of the skoot that ridin on wet roads had the back end FILTHY requiring too much clean-up. Took me 2 hours to silicone and install foam to seal the gaps!

All in all the Harleys/Indians, in my opinion, are NOT WORTH the $$$$ buy in as compared to a Jap bike. I been werkin on skoots for a living for 40+ years and have learned more than just about anyone (and am still learning) and from a professional standpoint the Jap skoots in many ways are better built.

Funny thing tho, as much as I loved my Vaq, it NEVER touched my heart strings like this Indian does. Never, and in that weird comparison (completely ELLIMINATING) my professional and objective findings MAKES THE $$$$ buy in WELL WORTH IT!!! We are emotional bout our skoots for sure!!!

BTW...here's what I've done since June 20th, 2016...



I am waiting to hit the Lottery so I can gets me one of those new Chieftain Elite's, now THAT skoot touches my heart strings like no other!!!

RACNRAY
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:47 AM   #13
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The POG would be enough to stop me from buying any bike. At least Kawasaki stood behind there POG mistake for 10 years even if the bike was outside of its warranty.

That is a major repair, no guarantee Polaris would be as ethical.

Some good insights and info on this thread.

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Old 11-29-2017, 07:14 PM   #14
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Indian update

As of today I am 13 miles away from 30,000 miles on my CDH, it will be 18 months old in 21 days. So much has been learned bout this skoot, by myself and by other Indian owners.

Yes, I have had a few problems. I ALSO warped the front rotors on this CDH which I detected the warpage at bout 8000 miles. Got them replaced under warrantee and have been easier on the new ones as I saw the label on the box of the new rotors said...."made in Taiwan"!

Common complaint is windshield rattle which I fixed but required front cowl removal.

If ANY of you 1700 owners think the throttle delay is bad on the 1700's, the lag is HORRIBLE on the Indians. Thankfully DynoJet came out with the Power Vision CX for the Indians which allows full access to ALL parameters of the ECU. I have worked with the RBW tables (there are 3 tables) and this has transformed the thing into a MONSTER. In some areas of the RBW tables the ecu is delivering 50-60% LESS throttle plate opening as requested by twist grip position. What a joke the factory settings are due to Indian's bonehead committee!!! Flashing the ecu only takes about 7 minutes.

The PVCX also allows us the ability to alter fuel and ignition along with stuff I have yet to understand, and has also improved performance tremendously. I am averaging upwards of 45-47 MPG with an increase of about 15 H.P. over stock with my custom intake and modified stock header with Bassani slip-ons.

The "clacking" and engine knocking noise complaints that have been common and what has been mentioned b4 have been rectified by altering individual cylinder ignition timing and at the same time improves performance. Indian's bonehead committee at work here again.

The Indians do have a weak clutch and clutch slippage was noticed between speed shifts when a couple of Harleys wanted a taste, so I installed a Barnett kit so I won't have any slippage in those scenarios.

There have been no oil pump issues and that plastic oil pump gear resides under the left side clutch cover. It is big and beefy and there are a few Indian owners with over 100,000 miles with no engine issues.

All in all I am happy with the Indian. It out handles and rides much nicer than my Vaq. The saddle bags SUCK big time and don't hold as much as the Vaq bags did. The electric locks make life easy, the cruise control is much better than the Vaq. I hated the stock seat on both bikes and both bikes got Corbin seats. This skoot is prolly the first that I will NOT install different grips, they are comfy!

I admit the cost of the skoot is high, but the way this thing looks, handles and performs is awesome and one thing that I can say is this skoot twangs my heartstrings like the Vaq never did.

RACNRAY
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RACNRAY View Post
As of today I am 13 miles away from 30,000 miles on my CDH, it will be 18 months old in 21 days. So much has been learned bout this skoot, by myself and by other Indian owners.

Yes, I have had a few problems. I ALSO warped the front rotors on this CDH which I detected the warpage at bout 8000 miles. Got them replaced under warrantee and have been easier on the new ones as I saw the label on the box of the new rotors said...."made in Taiwan"!

Common complaint is windshield rattle which I fixed but required front cowl removal.

If ANY of you 1700 owners think the throttle delay is bad on the 1700's, the lag is HORRIBLE on the Indians. Thankfully DynoJet came out with the Power Vision CX for the Indians which allows full access to ALL parameters of the ECU. I have worked with the RBW tables (there are 3 tables) and this has transformed the thing into a MONSTER. In some areas of the RBW tables the ecu is delivering 50-60% LESS throttle plate opening as requested by twist grip position. What a joke the factory settings are due to Indian's bonehead committee!!! Flashing the ecu only takes about 7 minutes.

The PVCX also allows us the ability to alter fuel and ignition along with stuff I have yet to understand, and has also improved performance tremendously. I am averaging upwards of 45-47 MPG with an increase of about 15 H.P. over stock with my custom intake and modified stock header with Bassani slip-ons.

The "clacking" and engine knocking noise complaints that have been common and what has been mentioned b4 have been rectified by altering individual cylinder ignition timing and at the same time improves performance. Indian's bonehead committee at work here again.

The Indians do have a weak clutch and clutch slippage was noticed between speed shifts when a couple of Harleys wanted a taste, so I installed a Barnett kit so I won't have any slippage in those scenarios.

There have been no oil pump issues and that plastic oil pump gear resides under the left side clutch cover. It is big and beefy and there are a few Indian owners with over 100,000 miles with no engine issues.

All in all I am happy with the Indian. It out handles and rides much nicer than my Vaq. The saddle bags SUCK big time and don't hold as much as the Vaq bags did. The electric locks make life easy, the cruise control is much better than the Vaq. I hated the stock seat on both bikes and both bikes got Corbin seats. This skoot is prolly the first that I will NOT install different grips, they are comfy!

I admit the cost of the skoot is high, but the way this thing looks, handles and performs is awesome and one thing that I can say is this skoot twangs my heartstrings like the Vaq never did.

RACNRAY
A lot of good comments there Ray. I switched rides last year and was this close (holding fingers really close) to buying a Roadmaster. However, when I test rode the HD 107 it really impressed me.
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