American Made BS

[BobBear]

Just wanted to share this experience I had at Bike Week in Daytona Saturday before last and rant a little about it. While touring the different manufacturers booths and stores, I was approached by a salesman of a well known American manufacturer (who I won't name because they both do it) who tried to convince me to buy one of their motorcycles because it was "American made" and "American quality".



I have owned nothing but Japanese motorcycles my entire life because I see them as superior in technology to American manufacturers and a great value. My Suzuki has ceramic electroplated cylinders, gear driven overhead cams, gear driven counter balancers, shaft drive, full liquid cooling,and a vtwin that revs like a sport bike. Just to name a few of it's qualities



Our Vaqueros and Voyagers have more features than you ever thought you could get for $10+ K less than an American made motorcycle. I have endured the scorn of rednecks yelling obscenities at me and calling me a traitor and a "dumbass" for not owning an American made motorcycle. I have heard the stories from more than one person of American bike owners damaging metric bike rider's motorcycles because of their "made in America" brainwashing.



All of it comes from the marketing departments of American motorcycle manufacturers who think it will convince people to buy their bikes for 10 or 15 thousand dollars more than their worth or hides their inferiority to metric bikes. I don't know about you but, all it does to me is piss me off because I live in reality-ville and as an engineer, trick engineering impresses me.


So, just so you know American manufacturers, some of us want to buy bikes that are well engineered, good looking, a good value, and don't need marketing BS to sell them and we don't care where they are made



Oh, and the Kawasaki booth was awesome. I can't think of another manufacturer who builds such an incredible diversity of cool motorcycles.

[Chuck A.]

Got 2 Kawasaki's myself. I ride them because the only trips I take to the dealer is to shoot the bull, not for repairs. But hey, everybody ride what they want.

[BobBear]

Originally Posted by Chuck A.

But hey, everybody ride what they want.

Yep, I believe that too. I just find that putting some kind of patriotic wedge between riders as a marketing ploy is unnecessary.

[dhuttonkc]

That "salesperson" was very likely a stand-in hired for the duration of the bike week. His head filled with muck for two weeks of "training" delivered by Internet before the event.

I have owned metric and "american made" motorcycles , even rode a couple of British bikes for a bit, during my tenure of riding, now 44 years. The metrics have been more reliable, and lower total cost to own every time. Several of the metric bikes were built in Marysville, OH. The "american made" manufacturers have proven only that they cannot compete on a purely mechanical and technical basis time and time again.

Oh.... and they seem to have some difficulty even staying in business or maintaining stock valuation.

I would bet that "the salesman" earned $15/hour and got to keep the smelly t-shirt (made in china or indonesia) at the end of bike week.

[recumbentbob]

I ride a 2014 Victory not because it's American made but because it fits me so well. When Kawasaki shortened the frame when they came out with the 1700 I was too cramped and could not get comfortable so I looked at other bikes and the Victory fit me the best, so I sold my 2008 Nomad. the victory only went to the dealer once for the 600 mile service. Been very happy with it.

[BobBear]

Originally Posted by recumbentbob

I ride a 2014 Victory not because it's American made but because it fits me so well. When Kawasaki shortened the frame when they came out with the 1700 I was too cramped and could not get comfortable so I looked at other bikes and the Victory fit me the best, so I sold my 2008 Nomad. the victory only went to the dealer once for the 600 mile service. Been very happy with it.

Victory was a nice bike. Especially those built in their final couple of years. I don't remember them pushing a herd mentality. However, seems like American made bikes just can't compete with the bang for the buck you get with metrics.

[mbarr10]

Victory's were Awesome to ride, but they lacked something I thought and still think modern motors need = A radiator. Even Porsche and VW went Liquid cooled. And I realize we do not have total liquid cooled jugs. But more like an assist liquid cooling, yet it has liquid cooling.

[Demolition Man]

Idiots are everywhere. I had 3 Kawi's, now the Indian, but would never buy a Harley. That is my point, but would never say, this bike or brand is better. The bike a I have suits me best at the moment, but could change after some years or not.


I give a shit on american quality - like I give a shit on "Made in germany" or quality built in japan.



You could be lucky with any brand and also could get a lemon from any brand, so . . .


So, dont spend so much time discussiong, what a frickin part time sales prick is talkin' about.






It doesn't matter what you ride - It is more important, THAT you ride !






Cu,
Sven

[recumbentbob]

Originally Posted by mbarr10

Victory's were Awesome to ride, but they lacked something I thought and still think modern motors need = A radiator. Even Porsche and VW went Liquid cooled. And I realize we do not have total liquid cooled jugs. But more like an assist liquid cooling, yet it has liquid cooling.

What people don't realize is Victory's have a large very efficient oil cooler.

[smokier]

Greetings,

This conversation carries over into other areas of course. I buy based on RELIABILITY, DEPENDABILITY, COST OF OWNERSHIP and RESALE VALUE. Yes, the vehicle needs to fit our needs. My in-laws are AMERICAN MADE people, they grew up a part of the John Deere tractor world. I catch crap for my Toyota's and Kawasaki's. They drive GMC' and HDs.
All I can say, our Highlander has been in the top 1 or 2 positions for reliability and customer sat for the past 10 years, and has been 100% reliable for us. Cannot say the same for the three Terrain's in the family.
We have over 40k miles on one Vaq and more than 30k on the other. No repair work done on either. My Brother-in-law's 28K mile HD?, top end rebuilt once already.

Short version, don't care where it is made. I care about where my hard earned money is spent and what it is going to get me.

My two cents and I am sticking to them...

[recumbentbob]

I have a friend that is HD thru and thru, he is thinking of buying a trike, he found a used HD trike at the Harley dealer, I suggested looking at a Gold Wing trike told him I felt they were a better buy. His reply was he only ever owned Harleys and he is staying with harley.
Oh well to each their own. I then suggested he test ride them both I just got a funny look.

[andyvh1959]

HD uses many components sourced from around the world (Japan, India, Australia) so they are US assembled, but not 100% American. But then, same for Polaris Indian/Victory. But I heard from a Victory owner that his Cross Country had more American content than a HD.

I had a HD rider checking the bikes where I worked sales at the local BMW/Victory dealer. Asked him what he thought of the Victory or test ride one, to which he only berated them and went on to tell me (without me asking) about everything he HAD to have done on his HD. I again offered a no commitment test ride, to which he said he wouldn't be caught dead on one. But he went on to tell how many things needed repairs or updated on his HD with less than 20,000 miles on it. OK, one more test ride offer, even if he had nothing to loose. No way was the reply. Oh, and it was a great warm late spring day but he drove a car, didn't ride his beloved HD.

[BobBear]

Originally Posted by recumbentbob

I have a friend that is HD thru and thru, he is thinking of buying a trike, he found a used HD trike at the Harley dealer, I suggested looking at a Gold Wing trike told him I felt they were a better buy. His reply was he only ever owned Harleys and he is staying with harley.
Oh well to each their own. I then suggested he test ride them both I just got a funny look.

My brother was a Harley guy for a while but decided to try a Honda F6B. He's a believer now.

[DragonLady58]

They all have their good things and bad things, and brand loyality sometimes gets the best of folks....
Though I most worked on Harleys, when things were slow around the dealership, the most senior mechanics worked on the New bikes, and others were left to work on trade-ins....
I've worked on the Big Hondas (mostly GWs or Valk's), Indians, BMWs, The big Kawas/Yamas/Suzs....
Thats what turned me onto the Nomads....while my baby still has a few things that irritate me, overall, Kawasaki made a vastly superior bike bike in the early 2000s, but thats just my Opinion. The Honda GW&Valk are awesome bikes, and so were the BMWs!
I had the fortunate pleasure to work on a traded in Nomad that had over 250K on the clock. Complete top end rebuild and she ran like new....that really impressed me. Though I didn't buy that one, I did buy a trade-in that was less than 35K, and completely redid her.
I even got a StreetGlide recently, that had a new 107 installed. While it looked great, the 107 was tired, I pulled her down, and now I stumbled across a 103 that I'm Installing. I've warmed her up some with a little more power....will be installing as my time permits.
Eventually, I will transfer to a Vaquero, as the Nomad parts dwindle. But, I do still enjoy the old tech. engines in the HDs....
And after shes done, I will split my riding time between the 2, as not to wear any one bike out. They both can be triked equally as well also....

As with everything, there are lemons within the most expensive cars and bikes.
Everyone, stay safe out there!
DragonLady....

[MAS Tequila]

Here is the bottom line:

I absolutely love the Nomads and Meanies I've had/have.

Last year I bought a Road King.

Is it better than the 1500/1600 platform bikes?

Hell yeah, but it's also 13 years newer than my 1500 Nomad.

That's 13 years of technical improvements, case closed.

MaKaw hasn't put anything new out, in cruisers, since the first 1700s were released 10 years ago.

It's not a brand thing, or where it's made, it's the manufacturer's lack of investment.

But lack of investment in improvements is tied to dwindling sales.

A huge vicious circle!