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Old 11-19-2017, 06:25 PM   #31
NBVoyager   NBVoyager is offline
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C4B flash

I have run the last 2 flashes. the latest C4B flash I was told by ivan moved the timing a smidge to help with lower octane fuel and also allows you to run stock or K&N filter with out any performance chgs. I have a 2017 and just coming up on 9000 miles. 3000 rpm seems to be the sweet spot I should also mention I am riding darkside and I am within 1-2 mph of gps now instead of 5 mph. 2 up we are around 450lbs 70mph in 5th is like riding on a wing even pulling a trailer. I still get a little vibe in the britches in 6th under 80 on the hills but still pulls way better than stock.



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Old 11-20-2017, 06:43 AM   #32
mbarr10   mbarr10 is offline
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I have run the last 2 flashes. the latest C4B flash I was told by ivan moved the timing a smidge to help with lower octane fuel and also allows you to run stock or K&N filter with out any performance chgs. I have a 2017 and just coming up on 9000 miles. 3000 rpm seems to be the sweet spot I should also mention I am riding darkside and I am within 1-2 mph of gps now instead of 5 mph. 2 up we are around 450lbs 70mph in 5th is like riding on a wing even pulling a trailer. I still get a little vibe in the britches in 6th under 80 on the hills but still pulls way better than stock.
Yes that is basically what my observations were yesterday on the motor part. It is the 2500 rpms at 70 in 6th that I notice it. But never used 6th much except on a trip at 70. But it was smoother and then you had to down shift to accelerate now I do not have to down shift but I lost the smoothness.

If the "59B" flash is smoother at 2500rpms than the "C4B", I may have to ask for that flash.

Any one else have these observations??
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:44 AM   #33
mike07nad   mike07nad is offline
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I'm gonna spew for a few

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Originally Posted by mbarr10 View Post
Yes that is basically what my observations were yesterday on the motor part. It is the 2500 rpms at 70 in 6th that I notice it. But never used 6th much except on a trip at 70. But it was smoother and then you had to down shift to accelerate now I do not have to down shift but I lost the smoothness.

If the "59B" flash is smoother at 2500rpms than the "C4B", I may have to ask for that flash.

Any one else have these observations??
Here is an observation that I had from moving from my 1600 Nomad to the 1700 Voyager.

On the 1700 Voyager it felt like I could count the revolutions of the crankshaft. Wooft, Wooft, Wooft, Wooft. At anything under 3000 RPM's then it got to a spot where it went from a Wooft, Wooft to a Purrr. This is what I describe as the engine reaching a Plane like on a boat. Just rode smoother. With the latest flash, the smoothness lowered in RPMs.

Now all that said - You are riding a V-Twin and they inherently vibrate - just look at those Harley shakers. I think to some extent you can expect some vibration and it's normal.

Caution on requesting an earlier flash.

I have had both flashes.

On the first flash, while it was smoother, more powerful and better than stock - it had a couple issues.

Issue #1 - My first flash was very hard to hold at a constant speed. Example, I spend a lot of time following my wife on her Spyder. It was either Accelerating or Decelerating, I could never get it to just ride at 45 or 50 mph to consistently follow her without having the Yo-Yo effect.

Issue #2 - In Flash #1 there was a Stumble in the acceleration curve. I can't remember the exact speed/gear combo. But it just had a little burp at a certain acceleration point. In asking Ivan about this, He went into a discussion about how Kawasaki put something in the design of opening / closing of the Flux Capacitor to allow for better emissions and power consumption. (Note after he went on a while he finally said "It's there, it's normal and he's adjusted it to be less noticeable.)

My suggestion to you.

Ride it, Get used to the new feel, Wait until warmer weather and see how it does then.

Oh and I can still chug along in 6th gear at 1,600 RPMs and have the Umph to pull it out. Which I could never do with OEM Flash.

If all else fails - Turn up the Radio and take a Midol.
 
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Old 11-20-2017, 08:05 AM   #34
mike07nad   mike07nad is offline
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Hmmm

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Originally Posted by NBVoyager View Post
I have run the last 2 flashes. the latest C4B flash I was told by ivan moved the timing a smidge to help with lower octane fuel and also allows you to run stock or K&N filter with out any performance chgs.
I did a drive by to Ivan's shop for my Re-Reflash. What a great guy!

In our conversation on Fuel - I took the following 2 things away from the conversation.

#1 - Between the first and second flash, he made adjustments (didn't tell me what adjustments) so different Brands of Premium fuel would work more consistently between brands. I interpreted this as Exxon, Shell, Sunoco, etc. All had Premium at certain Octane and all react differently to his tune. He tuned it with a little leeway for brand differences.

#2 - I pretty matter of factly told him that have used Mid-Grade in Reflash 1 and how it ran was acceptable to me. He gave me the inference that while the Mid Grade will work, his tune is optimized for premium. 91/93. And I have found him to be correct for me.


On fuel - I will say this. Fuel in different States work Different.
On a recent trip from PA to Wisconsin I refueled many times. Always used the highest octane available. In some states, Ohio and Illinois (I think) the MPG went down by as much as 10 MPG and the bike physically shook on acceleration. Could it have been some water in gas - could be - I think we just have a different mixture of corn in Pennsylvania.

Not trying to dispute or challenge, just giving my interpretation of my conversation with Ivan.

Note - next Spring - I'll try some Mid-Grade to see what it does for me. Sure will be cheaper cause I generally fill up my Voyager and my Wife's Spyder at the same time.

Have a great day!
 
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Old 11-20-2017, 09:44 PM   #35
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Great suggestions, Thank You
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Last edited by mbarr10; 11-21-2017 at 06:33 AM. Reason: better suggestion
 
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:17 AM   #36
mike07nad   mike07nad is offline
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Wow - So much to work with.

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Originally Posted by mbarr10 View Post
Laughing with you, not at you.

I really need to try a Voyager to ride, I am hung up on the Pulsation designed in the Vaquero. I remember on the Factory truck tour when I first tried the Vaquero coming from the 2007 FI 1500 Classic. My thoughts were" did they forget the counter balance." it vibrated much more than my 1500. I learned they put a Pulsation into the Vaquero to give it a feel of power . At that time I thought it really sucked. I was never going to buy a Vaquero. But just look at the Beast, it was so seductive I had to have one. I do not regret it, I am just commenting on it. Looking for Validation and assurances on my purchase, and comparing notes. I honestly have no clue as to the difference in the bikes. Even though they share the same motors.
<I really need to try a Voyager to ride>
<I honestly have no clue as to the difference in the bikes. Even though they share the same motors.>

Biggest difference is Weight, Weight Distribution, Air Flow and THE BAGS.

Weight on a Vaquero is less because it is lighter.

Weight Distribution is lower because the Vaquero does not have the trunk which for the most part is full of stuff you might need. You know - It's a giant Man Purse.

Air Flow - No KAMS, No Lowers, Short Windshield on the Vaquero

THE BAGS - So many Kawasaki 1500/1600 owners complained that Maw Kaw got rid of the ICONIC Side Opening Nomad Bags. Well, the Vaquero solved that Iconic problem. I've had both - I like the VOYAGER TOP OPENING BAGS - but that is another thread.

Gearing - I'm pretty sure the Vaquero has different gearing than a Voyager - To give is a sportier feel.

Same RADIO
Same Seat
Same Vibration / Pulsation - Which by the way - I think someone on the Kaw Truck filled you full of SMOKE - They didn't BUILD it in to make it feel like it had more power. They BUILT it in to appeal to the Harley (the Shake) Crowd.
 
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:59 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike07nad View Post
<Gearing - I'm pretty sure the Vaquero has different gearing than a Voyager - To give is a sportier feel.>

<Weight on a Vaquero is less because it is lighter.>
<Gearing - I'm pretty sure the Vaquero has different gearing than a Voyager - To give is a sportier feel.>
According to my service manual that covers both, they have the same gear ratios.

<Weight on a Vaquero is less because it is lighter.>
Uh...ya think??? LOL
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:50 AM   #38
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http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2010/1...ro-first-ride/

The same could be said of the engine, a liquid-cooled 52-degree V-Twin. Power claims from the 1700 are unchanged with 108 lb-ft peak torque at 2,750 rpm. The internal architecture remains unaltered at 1700cc from its 102mm bore and 104mm stroke, but the powerplant does source a larger-volume intake manifold for a more linear throttle response and improved idle. Unique to the Vaquero mill the addition of a second piston ring to improve durability.
The six-speed transmission has been tweaked, a lower chain guide removed from the primary drive for a slight weight reduction. The Vaquero also sources the damper-less clutch found on the Vulcan Classic, as opposed to the smoother clutch configurations on the Voyager and Nomad models. The rationale for the damper-less system is to deliver a rawer, more pronounced torque feel from the engine.
 
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Old 11-21-2017, 05:16 PM   #39
mike07nad   mike07nad is offline
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Well back to this initial question of this thread - What be the latest Ivan Flash.

Well I had an original Flash which I had updated in the spring of this year.

I finally pulled my ECU - it has a code of FU059C

I called Ivan's and got the young lady who answered the phone. - Said yep there is a later version (per web site C4B). I asked what changes there are - she responded - Increased Driveability. That's all I could get. So maybe in the spring - I'll take a little trip. It's an up and back in 1 day. Not the nicest ride lot of heavy traffic interstates.

So Now I know - I'm behind the times.
 
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:12 PM   #40
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So Now I know - I'm behind the times.
I would not really say that, You have the experience of the Flash progression. In my case I have nothing to compare it to. But I can tell you all of the jerkiness is gone ( well except for the jerk operating the throttle, That would be Me)

Today I plan on looking for the Blurb in acceleration that you talked about. WHEEEEEE. And there goes another tank of gas.
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:39 PM   #41
mike07nad   mike07nad is offline
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We've Created a Monster!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbarr10 View Post
I would not really say that, You have the experience of the Flash progression. In my case I have nothing to compare it to. But I can tell you all of the jerkiness is gone ( well except for the jerk operating the throttle, That would be Me)

Today I plan on looking for the Blurb in acceleration that you talked about. WHEEEEEE. And there goes another tank of gas.
I'll bet you won't find that Burp in Acceleration - he got most of that out in the flash I've got. Which is one behind you.
 
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Old 11-25-2017, 05:43 AM   #42
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I'll bet you won't find that Burp in Acceleration - he got most of that out in the flash I've got. Which is one behind you.
Correct, Could not find the burp. Did learn how to ride sitting higher up (Mustang seat just installed) and One more tank of gas gone. It was 57f in Minneapolis. Near perfect weather.
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:53 AM   #43
mike07nad   mike07nad is offline
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Brrrr...

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Originally Posted by mbarr10 View Post
It was 57f in Minneapolis. Near perfect weather.
We tried to go out the other day when it got up to 52 and sunny, then it got cloudy and cooler. Was 45 before we got back home - While my heated Seat, Grips and Gerbing coat make it tolerable it's still not that enjoyable. So we have parked them for the winter - Spring will come.
 
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Old 11-25-2017, 04:25 PM   #44
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Got my ecu back with the latest update. Put 40 miles on today. Big improvement at slow speeds in town for drivabilty. The jerky throttle response is much smoother now. Didn't notice much else, was cruising 65-70 in 6th gear and ran fine.
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:45 PM   #45
mbarr10   mbarr10 is offline
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Funny Observation

My bike smells different. I thought it was weird, but since the flash it has had a different smell. Almost like something burning on the exhaust.

And, Just noticed and more than once, a slight- ever so slight. I mean almost so slight that the RPM needle does not move but it does somewhat. Variation in Idle sitting at a stop light. Warm engine. But cold weather.

Any one notice it? with only 5100 miles I do not think it would be gummed up throttle bodies. Always run 91 octane. Idles at 900 just like stock. Just another funny observation, no complaints here. I Am Happy With the flash, VERY HAPPY.
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