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Old 12-08-2017, 12:27 PM   #1
colin   colin is offline
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Swapping 1600 into an 03 1500cc Nomad

Hey all -

So, I've been poking through the forums, and it looks like quite a few people have done the swap from a 1500 to a 1600cc, assuming the basics line up (Fi engine to Fi bike, etc). I've got some questions as my 1500cc engine crapped the bed recently (transmission gears/dogs are worn/stripped), and recently scored on a very low mileage 04 1600cc Mean Streak engine, which is now sitting in my garage, in the process of being uncrated.

The reading I've done thus far suggests that the 1600cc mean streaks didn't have all the crazy changes that the 1500cc MS's did (larger throttle bodies, cams, etc), with exception of the gear ratio, which should make the swap somewhat standard, but it's left me with a couple of questions before I begin my work.

1 - Tuning. As has been noted several times in other threads, the 1600cc ECU and the 1500cc ECU have different connectors and pin-outs, so the possibility of just plugging a 1600 ecu into a 1500 ecu socket doesn't exist. So, my question is, being that my bike's ecu is mapped for a 1500cc engine, will I run into any issues when the 1600 goes in? I can only imagine it's going to be running lean with the difference in displacement, assuming it runs at all. Is a power commander all that's required to make it run right? Repeatedly in other threads, I see comments such as "it'll all swap right over" with regards to the swap in general, but I rarely see in-depth discussion about the differences in tuning based on the difference in displacement.

2 - This is more me just confirming, but I've read that the injectors of the 1500 need to be used in the 1600, as the 1600 has it's fuel regulator in the tank as a part of the fuel pump, as opposed to the 1500's, which have the regulators in the injectors themselves. Is this truly the case? Just making sure as my 1500 injectors are fine and should be able to be reused.

Lastly - 3 - The stator. I've heard that the Nomads had dual stator systems... Do anyone know if all Nomads had that setup? If so, I can only assume that the parts swap right over without hassle. Can that be confirmed?


Thanks - I know this has been a little lengthy, but wanted to throw this out there as I've been linked back to this forum several times hearing that this is not an uncommon swap, so I'm hoping to gain some clarity from people that know what they're talking about. :)
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UPDATE: -> On thread page 3 - it's later discovered that the replacement engine ALSO had a bad transmission. Click here to jump to page 3.

Also, here's a link to a photo album that I'm using to keep track of the rebuild.



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Last edited by colin; 04-17-2018 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Wanted to add a photo album link
 
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:10 PM   #2
DragonLady58   DragonLady58 is offline
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#1- The 1600 is just a lightly stroked 1500, all things being equal.
#2- The 1600, Vulcan Classic/Nomads engine will bolt into a 1500 Vulcan Classic/Nomads. Straight swap over.
Now, MAS might have more experience with meanies swapping to a Nomad, maybe you can change out the whole rear swingarm....that way you wouldn't have driveshaft issues....
#3- I just wire up a single stator, single regulator into the stock wiring harness, with -0- problems, but, to each their own....Don't have as much electric juice to power a ton of acessories as a reg. Nomad, but your driving lights, airhorn, radio in a batwing fairing, its plenty....
Just my 2 pecos....most times, building a bike and doing a custom bike, majority of the time, the simple setup is usually the best.
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1500 Meanie, fresh rebuild (sold)
90s BUBF Bobber (sold)
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Last edited by DragonLady58; 12-08-2017 at 03:14 PM.
 
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:43 PM   #3
colin   colin is offline
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Oh I completely agree with the idea that a single stator is probably sufficient. Just figured if the stock engine has the dual setup, that'd I'd retain it if it was easy enough (just moving some wiring from one to another).

As far as the final drive, does the driveshaft actually have issues fitting? I've heard that the only affect that a MS engine should have would be that the rpm's would be higher due to the slightly lower gearing. Are the connections for the shaft actually different?

Oh, and as I was asking before, would you have any idea of any special tuning would be involved? I think that's what I'm most concerned about, assuming the driveshaft still fits. LOL
 
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:48 PM   #4
DragonLady58   DragonLady58 is offline
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The ECU mapping for the 1500's/1600's the same, same ecu, no difference, engine bolts in, fires right up. Now, the 1600 rev's a little harder down low and into midrange. The tuning is slightly diff. on your 1600, it likes a little more fuel in the midrange....or at least my thunder 1600 does, which is a 1500 big bore kit with cams.
Now, I use the Wiseco tuner, which plugs between the injectors and computer. It does a fine job,by the way....
Now my thunder 1700 which is a 1600 with a big bore kit and cams, I give it a little more juice down low, same midrange, with the high in coming a little sooner with a .5 improvement in the top....its actually very scarey to ride in the wet, it has alot of torque and power.
It was actually put on the dyno up at Sturgis, just after I got her running, the HD tuner on hand opened his eyes really big and said 'Damn!'
Its a very low 12's street dresser in the 1/4....and thats with the big bore 1500. But shes also running high compression pistons, reground cams, ported heads, etc, etc....
Smokes the tire slightly for about 5' in 1st just before hitting the rev limiter, wheelies slightly into 2nd, winds her up thru 3rd, shift into 4th just before the traps.
I ran a 13 flat@100mph, friend of mine that rides drag bikes after 3 passes got her to 12.04@109mph, 1st-4th gears, after adjusting the tuner some.
Fuel mileage was shit for the next week, getting only 34 mpg. Street tuning for the highway is 43-45 mpg....but she's still really fast.

As MAS said, the Meanies are lowered gear, which is really good if majority of riding is around town or locally
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Don't start no schit,
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2014 Vaquero
2001 Nomad FI
2003 Street Glide (sold)
1500 Meanie, fresh rebuild (sold)
90s BUBF Bobber (sold)
2001 UltraCycle FatPounder (Sold)
1975 HD ElectraGlide (Sold)
1982 Kawasaki Z1 Chopper (Sold)
Suck It Up & Ride!

Last edited by DragonLady58; 12-08-2017 at 05:15 PM.
 
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:52 PM   #5
colin   colin is offline
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Right on! I love hearing stuff like that! I've been through a bunch of bikes over the last 10 years, but I've really come to enjoy my Nomad, even over my 03 Roadstar that I had 7-8 years ago. It's just an all around great bike and the V&H bagger exhaust just sounds so awesome.

Ok, then the tuning shouldn't be too big of an issue. I'll check out the Wiseco stuff and see what they have.

As far as your previous comment about the drive shaft... Is that something I need to be worried about? Are you certain that the driveshafts are different enough that modification or replacement would be required?

Thanks again.



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Old 12-08-2017, 05:17 PM   #6
ringadingh   ringadingh is offline
 
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Use your original driveshaft, it should slide right on to the motor.
You will have change pressure regulator on the 1600, you will easily see what you need to do to get it to plug together.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:31 PM   #7
DragonLady58   DragonLady58 is offline
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Like I said, straight swap over between the 1500 to 1600, complete bolt in. There is a possibility thou. Look at your ujoint dia.'s, you might be able to take the Meanie end where it goes from the angle drive and put it on the nomad driveshaft by pressing out the ujoint and id mic'ing the dia.
A bud of mine did a change over by cutting his driveshaft, machining down the cut ends, pressing on a collar, and pressing the other in end. Had it in a lathe, then I TIg welded it, then we had it spin balanced....
I think he had to do some work on the motormounts....but I never actually did it myself, except doing the driveshaft welding....
I don't remember if it was he changed the driveshaft, and changed the swingarm too....I THINK he was actually lengthening his rear swingarm for some reason....I've slept since then....
MAS might come in later and let us know if the motormounts are the same.
You could always look at the part #s and see....
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Don't start no schit,
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VRA
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2014 Vaquero
2001 Nomad FI
2003 Street Glide (sold)
1500 Meanie, fresh rebuild (sold)
90s BUBF Bobber (sold)
2001 UltraCycle FatPounder (Sold)
1975 HD ElectraGlide (Sold)
1982 Kawasaki Z1 Chopper (Sold)
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Last edited by DragonLady58; 12-08-2017 at 05:37 PM.
 
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:33 PM   #8
MAS Tequila   MAS Tequila is offline
 
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Bolt the 1600 in with ALL of the 1500 goodies, throttle body, wiring harness, driveshaft, everything.

You will not have a problem.

You can, if you so choose, swap the dual stator set up over from the Nomad/Classic on to the Meanie engine.

The 1600 Meanie engine has larger valves and better flowing heads.

To make use of this MaKaw used a slightly larger throttle body which will not work on your 03 1500.

You will get a bit more HP and torque, but what really kicks you in the seat of the pants will be the lower gearing in the transmission.

Although, the 1600's longer stroke will not run out quite as freely as the 1500, but it will have slightly longer legs at highway speeds.

If you have any ?'s you can give me a call @5612103399, I've done this once or twice.
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Last edited by MAS Tequila; 12-08-2017 at 05:36 PM.
 
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:43 PM   #9
DragonLady58   DragonLady58 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS Tequila View Post
Bolt the 1600 in with ALL of the 1500 goodies, throttle body, wiring harness, driveshaft, everything.

You will not have a problem.

You can, if you so choose, swap the dual stator set up over from the Nomad/Classic on to the Meanie engine.

The 1600 Meanie engine has larger valves and better flowing heads.

To make use of this MaKaw used a slightly larger throttle body which will not work on your 03 1500.

You will get a bit more HP and torque, but what really kicks you in the seat of the pants will be the lower gearing in the transmission.

Although, the 1600's longer stroke will not run out quite as freely as the 1500, but it will have slightly longer legs at highway speeds.

If you have any ?'s you can give me a call @5612103399, I've done this once or twice.
Oh MAS!, I love all that dirty talk you do!!!!!
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Don't start no schit,
there won't be no schit....
*My Sarcasm is directly proportional
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VRA
---------------------
2014 Vaquero
2001 Nomad FI
2003 Street Glide (sold)
1500 Meanie, fresh rebuild (sold)
90s BUBF Bobber (sold)
2001 UltraCycle FatPounder (Sold)
1975 HD ElectraGlide (Sold)
1982 Kawasaki Z1 Chopper (Sold)
Suck It Up & Ride!
 
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Old 12-10-2017, 03:33 PM   #10
colin   colin is offline
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Awesome! Thanks to all for their responses! I'll get working on it, and if anything comes up that looks like I need clarification, I'll pop back in.

Thanks again.
 
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Old 01-08-2018, 11:37 AM   #11
colin   colin is offline
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Ok, so, it's been a good month since I've posted an update, but since I truly only got started on the physical work of this project a couple days ago, it's still going pretty smoothly considering I've been out in the garage working in the cold.

So, I just wanted to list out a couple of observations, as well as ask a question. First off, the engine removal went pretty smoothly. Had a buddy come over and help me get it out of the frame, as disconnecting the drive shaft while the bike is up on jack stands was a white knuckle experience. If I had secured the bike a little better, it would've been easier, but regardless, the 2nd set of hands helped a lot. Also, and I think it was mentioned earlier, but removing the oil filter gave me all the additional room I needed to sort of rotate/spin the engine to the right, and out of the frame.

Ok, so... the dual stator setup. Initially, I was really wanting to swap that over, although, after a little bit of simple observation, it looks like it won't swap over as the engine case on the new engine doesn't have the physical pass-through hole in the case for the wiring. While it's a little disappointing, I don't think I have a solid reason to need the 2nd stator, so I'm ok with using the single stator included on the new engine. The question though, is whether I can just leave the 2nd wiring harness plug for the 2nd stator (that the new engine doesn't have) unplugged, or do I need to do any special wiring being that it won't be hooked up to anything? My initial thought was to just cover it in a balloon and then tape the crap out of it to sort of "cap it off", but after thinking about it, concluded I should verify before moving forward.

Thanks!
 
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:55 PM   #12
DragonLady58   DragonLady58 is offline
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Really and truely, the dual stators are nice for the extra elect. load of a dresser: extra lights, radio, trailer, this, that, and the other.....
Single stator systems seem to be just ass good as the dual systems. But, if 1 dies, the other can run awhile if it doesn't short out....
Just my 2 pecos....
Maybe MAS or Ringading will show up with their input....
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Don't start no schit,
there won't be no schit....
*My Sarcasm is directly proportional
to the amount of Stupidity involved*
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VROC#37400

VRA
---------------------
2014 Vaquero
2001 Nomad FI
2003 Street Glide (sold)
1500 Meanie, fresh rebuild (sold)
90s BUBF Bobber (sold)
2001 UltraCycle FatPounder (Sold)
1975 HD ElectraGlide (Sold)
1982 Kawasaki Z1 Chopper (Sold)
Suck It Up & Ride!
 
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:43 PM   #13
colin   colin is offline
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Agreed... I'm just not sure about how to move the system over being that there's physical differences in the engine case. I'm not sure stoked about drilling a hole in the side of the case to force the point. :/ But I completely agree - if I could move it over easily, I absolutely would.
 
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Old 01-08-2018, 03:23 PM   #14
colin   colin is offline
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Ok, so did a little more reading. Saw in an old post that bikes that have dual stator setups need to have both plugs plugged in, or need to have both plugs combined somehow as different system run off of each plug.

I'm going to include a couple of pictures, so maybe someone can provide clarification as to what I should do. First picture is of the old engine, showing the connections. Notice that extra plug? Now check the second picture... No hole in the case for that plug to go through on the new engine... So, if I wanted to hook the second stator up, how would I go about doing that?

Also, in the event that it's too much hassle wiring up the 2nd stator, would it be acceptable to make a "Y" wire adapter to essentially split the connection going out of the the single stator to the dual connectors? Basically, I'd fork every wire off the stator connector so it could plug into both of the input terminals on the wiring harness? Let me know if that wasn't clear as I'm obviously fumbling over my words

Thx

First Pic - Original Nomad 1500 Engine

Second Pic - 1600 engine

Last edited by colin; 01-08-2018 at 03:30 PM.
 
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Old 01-08-2018, 06:31 PM   #15
colin   colin is offline
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MAS - just spoke to you on the phone... you're a gentleman and a scholar. LOL

Anyway, apparently, the inner stator case extends back far enough that the "hole" I'm referring to is actually a part of the stator cover, so apparently, that shouldn't be an issue and will swap over with the stator cover.

Last but not least, MAS also explained that the shifter from the mean streak - the little gear thing that the shifter attaches to - will NOT accept the heel shifter, and will only accept the toe shifter (it's shorter than the nomads). Apparently, this can be swapped over at the same time as the stator, as the parts are basically under the same cover.

I'll post pictures when I'm done.
 
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