Belt Drive.....?

[jandijkgraaf]

More and more bikes are using it..
Personally I have no experience with it.
Anyone here able to shine some light upon that?
What are the differences compared with the old ways?
Should one stick with them,or accept the future?
What I mean to say is every drive has its own character..right?
So..what about the belt drive.
Dead or alive?

[macmac]

Alive very alive. Cheaper than chains and sprokets, cheaper than final drives and shafts when first bought, but hell on the wallet at a change time. They run quiet when set up right and scream when they are not.

The belt and cogs are pricey, but last better than chain in general. They are not real good on gravel roads, which should be obvious.

They are as good at delivering power as chains, where the shaft eats ponies.

They tend to last 45,000 miles, unless cut by stones. They are safer than chain, and if they break tend to fall off harmlessly rather than wrap around the rear sproket, or bust the engine case warped up on the primary cogs like chains do.

The hrdest part is getting everything to run in line, which is costly and if not done right creates squeels, and eat cog belt splines.

[jandijkgraaf]

That's very informative Mac..thank you.
I think 45,000 miles is great..far better than a chain.
But..according to your comment fine tuning seems to be a problem.
As it is with any other drive I suppose.
Why do you know about this?
After all..you are an old fashioned Nomad 16 rider..right?
Did you actually test ride one of those belt bikes?

[recumbentbob]

My wife's Yamaha is belt drive and very smooth.

I have a friend that has a 1700 Yamaha with 2 holes in his belt they have been there for 15,000 miles and no problem.

IMHO the perfect bike would be my 2008 Nomad with belt drive......

[macmac]

I know this because nothing is new about belt drives. I am a x foreign car tech, from the day when we were called mechanics. There was a time where i would punch a guy for calling me a tech, but since it is faster to type tech, than it is to type mechanic i allowed a few things to slide.

To me a mehcanic is a diagnostic computer on 2 feet that walks. I had already replaced 10,000 cogged belts before a motorcycle was fit with one.

On a bike it is critical that both cogs and the belt are straight, dead arrow straight.

besides normal wear and tear, there is 2 problems with belts, one is a joker cutting it off on purpose like the cops do at Laconia when a bike is parked illegally, and stones that are caught on the belt and run up over the cog wheel. The belts are tighter than bull snot and the stones get jammeb thru. So long as the stone is small enough it pops right thru. The belt is so tight that it will refuse to lift and make a gap. The stone has space and no place to go, so it goes thru the belt.

A larger stone will break the belt right now fast. But the system is tuff and will accept some stones.

This past fall the same type drive belt on the volvo I have, a timing belt broke too, A mouse built a big nest at the inside on the belt cogs just abouve the crank cogs, and that nest was to big to run thru. SNAP.... I took a truck to buy a new belt and had it fixed with in the hour. A B21 Ft engine is not a crash engine, however the B23 is. Both Volvos, I assume you know what volvos are.

[jandijkgraaf]

Let me put it another way.
The character between those drives to me is important.
Not so much how long they will last.
I'm an old chain driver,and I found in all these years nothing more
direct or better than that.
Even with the Nomad I ride right now I miss the chain drive.
In short..I would like to hear about the difference..in feeling.
It's about feeling and character.

[macmac]

I thought I said it, the feeling is right now with get up and go like a chain, just like a chain but with no fiddling and lubing a chain. O ring chain can bleed out and get stiff links, Both types of chain stretch a belt isn't going to strecth after the first 1,000 miles till the day it breaks, or is worn out.

It's character is dead quiet, or nearly so. No chain chatter no waved sprocket cogs like chains do.

Each side plate on a chain will grow a little under long term stress, at the same time each roller gets smaller on it's plain of axis,, as the rollers encounter sand. So 2 things make the links longer in effect. Then the rollers and sand wear the sprocket cogs or teeth, wider apart, and in say 25,000 miles with care and a o ring chain, nothing fits well anymore. You can still ride but the cogs are ill shaped and the chain keeps growing longer. mainly the rollers are getting smaller.

Side plates stop growing longer in 5,000 miles and we are taliijg in terms of 1/10 thousands nof inches. for side plates stretch, they really are not the problem the rollers are.

Some guys will come in and tell me this isn't true, but I know different. But they will almost be right.

Engine timing chains stretch too, and one proof is the extenders guys must install at around 30,000 miles and these chains had better never see sand.

[jandijkgraaf]

Both Volvos, I assume you know what volvos are.

Don't be arrogant MMaaacc.

[macmac]

That ain't arrogant it is teasing You live pretty close to the land of volvos. All I ever got from there so far, was a coke bottle with a message welded up in the quarter panel of a Saab 99.

I couldn't even read the message.

[ringadingh]

I agree with all of macs thoughts on using a belt. Over the choice of a chain, Id choose the belt every time. Harleys have run over 160,000 km on the oem belt and sprockets. My pal that I ride with just changed his at 180,000km.

[jandijkgraaf]

Originally Posted by macmac

That ain't arrogant it is teasing You live pretty close to the land of volvos. All I ever got from there so far, was a coke bottle with a message welded up in the quarter panel of a Saab 99.

I couldn't even read the message.

What are you talking about?
Is it me not understanding your American B.S language?
Who was talking about Volvos anyway..eh?
I'm talking about motorcycles here..right?
Apart from that..the land of Volvos is far away from me.
I'm a Hollander..living in the land of crime..murder and hell.
Don't mistake about that.

[tombstone]

Chains eat up about 5% of the power before it gets to the back wheel. Belts about 7%, shafts 12 - 15%

So..chains are the most efficient way to transfer power, but they have inherent problems...lube, stretch, reletively short life. I knew a guy that got 5K out of his chains, I got around 30K from mine with an auto oiler.

Belts have longer life, 60K miles plus. Low maintenance, fairly quiet, and no lube splatters. But they are not good for off road type riding, or high horse power machines, hence HD and other cruisers prolific use. Adjustment is not usually a problem, if you can see well enough to ride you can see well enough to line up a belt.

Shaft robs the most power, but is very low maintenance...on the other hand when you have problems it can be pricey ie: the BMW horror stories. I've had three Wings and loved the shaft drive, never had a problem with any of them. I really like the belt drive on my Nomad, it's quiet and smooth. As for chain drive, I've owned two Stroms..at first I HATED the chain, but then I got a Scott Auto oiler and virtually forgot about the chain, and instead fell in love with the bike.

That's my 2 cents.. BTW I loved the time I spent in Holland, what a beautiful country!

[ndbigfish]

[/quote]I'm a Hollander..living in the land of crime..murder and hell.
Don't mistake about that.[/quote]

I recently saw several television programs that were showing and proclaiming how great Holland is. I guess television programming really is just bull excrement.

My next bike will likely have a belt drive. Lighter weight and good transfer of power to the rear wheel are big pluses. I never have heard of any problems with rocks interfering with the belt's operation. Maybe that is because my HD riding friends always stay on the pavement.

[macmac]

Holland is closer to Sweden than New Hampshire USA is. Belts are belts to me. Lots of these belts go on lots of things besides bikes. You sure do get grumpy fast

You could always vacation in the nice sunny Chicago ::)

[blowndodge]

Pay no attention mac.

You too would be grumpy if your heritage's A$$ was kick in every conflict since the 20th Century.

Cut the Sheep Herder some slack!!