1700cc Nomad Power questions

[smokey]

When I ride in my group I usually lead, I have no problem with leaving the Harleys behind, in fact I have to slow down to let them catch up. I ride the Voyager with hypercharger, tri ovals, and cobra AT installed.

[Gandalf]

I love the Vaquero and actually have a deal set up to get a beautiful red 2011. I liked the way it rode as it was very smooth, I especially liked the cruise control and stereo and it felt very light at a stop or taking it off of the center stand. Overall, I was impressed-BUT:

"Where's the beef?" I know that the bike is geared extremely high but at 60-65 mph in top gear, there was basically NO acceleration and LOTS of vibration, shaking and shudder. Acceleration going on an on-ramp was pathetic and MY Honda NT700 would out pull it quite easily!

I ride one of the most powerful cruisers around, a 2008 Suzuki C109R 1800cc bike, that has to be felt to understand what power, torque and acceleration really is. It is WAY faster than my past VTX1800 Honda.

I've also had Harley's and built dyno winning big twins in Southern, CA and the HD engine responds nicely to modifications and the HP can be doubled and still be reliable.

Being a big twin already, I'm sure that the 1700 would also respond well to the aftermarket and maybe pick up some excitement.

I'm not a racer anymore but when I'm cruising along at say 60 mph in top gear I want something to happen when I want to pass someone other than vibration and shudder, without having to downshift into 3rd gear.

The Vaquero is a work of art for sure and I'm sure that I'll enjoy one if I get it.

Sam:)

[ringadingh]

Originally Posted by majeff

If you are looking for speed in a 1700 you won't find it. The bike is made for torque to carry your 300 pound girlfriend and pull a trailer. I bought a new 2010 Voyager and I too was disappointed in the 1700. Needless to say after 8 months I traded the bike off.

If I had a 300lb girlfriend I'd buy a dump truck not a 1700.

[crazygene49]

Originally Posted by majeff

If you are looking for speed in a 1700 you won't find it. The bike is made for torque to carry your 300 pound girlfriend and pull a trailer. I bought a new 2010 Voyager and I too was disappointed in the 1700. Needless to say after 8 months I traded the bike off.

Pics?

[R_W_B]

Originally Posted by Gandalf

I love the Vaquero and actually have a deal set up to get a beautiful red 2011. I liked the way it rode as it was very smooth, I especially liked the cruise control and stereo and it felt very light at a stop or taking it off of the center stand. Overall, I was impressed-BUT:

"Where's the beef?" I know that the bike is geared extremely high but at 60-65 mph in top gear, there was basically NO acceleration and LOTS of vibration, shaking and shudder. Acceleration going on an on-ramp was pathetic and MY Honda NT700 would out pull it quite easily!

I ride one of the most powerful cruisers around, a 2008 Suzuki C109R 1800cc bike, that has to be felt to understand what power, torque and acceleration really is. It is WAY faster than my past VTX1800 Honda.

I've also had Harley's and built dyno winning big twins in Southern, CA and the HD engine responds nicely to modifications and the HP can be doubled and still be reliable.

Being a big twin already, I'm sure that the 1700 would also respond well to the aftermarket and maybe pick up some excitement.

I'm not a racer anymore but when I'm cruising along at say 60 mph in top gear I want something to happen when I want to pass someone other than vibration and shudder, without having to downshift into 3rd gear.

The Vaquero is a work of art for sure and I'm sure that I'll enjoy one if I get it. Sam:)

Sam sounds like you're at the same point I am with the Nomad. Although I'm not familiar with the gears of Vaquero, does it have 6 also ? They say on the Nomad 1700 you shouldn't even hardly be in 5 gear at 60mph, definitely not 6th gear until above 70 or so.

I've known some guys that modded their late model 96ci and 103ci Harleys. Some are still running ok, others had issues with compensator failures and slipped cranks (they are pressed together). The ones that had them rebuilt had the crank trued and welded after being pressed.

I like those Suzuki M109's a lot, but they just don't really offer the same touring package. Those bags look more like the Kawa Classic 2000 LT type.

[Sin City Stan]

Welcome from Sin City, Nevada.

By your own admission there is a 200 lb. difference with only 100cc additional displacement. The 1700s can be made to go as demonstrated by Ray however, the weight difference is almost like riding two up and trying to keep up with a single rider.

You have to decide what type of riding you plan on doing. The stock 1700s don't sound like they're for you unless you're willing to modify.

Good Luck on your quest.

[ponch]

Originally Posted by RACNRAY

Sounds like your evaluation is a pretty fair and accurate assessment of the Vulcan 1700's.
The 1700's are highly restricted in stock form to meet EPA and DOT noise standards.

loud≠power. There are plenty bikes out there that are quiet that make plenty power. It's a question of design and engineering. Sure you can add air kits, fuel controllers, port heads and add aftermarket exhausts, but after all is said and done, sometimes it's better to get something that has what you want out of the box.

That said, I have ridden a Voyager and an Ultra with a 96. Damned if I could tell the difference in power.

My guess is that Kawasaki wanted to build an engine that is reliable first and foremost, especially after the issues with the V2K. There's a guy on the Delphi forum that has a 2009 Voyager and he's put close to 200K miles on it. I imagine Kawasaki did something right.

[Monkeyman]

I'm picky but there's actually 148cc difference between the 1600 and 1700. The 1600 is only 1552cc.

[majeff]

I don't know why Kawasaki didn't keep the Nomad with the 1552 cc setup and offer what they have presently. I know of quite few bike riders that still want the old Nomad because the new designed bikes are lacking. I know some of the people that belong to this forum that still have the old Nomad to keep in line with the Bagger rules but have bought better bikes like BMW, Goldwing and Harley. Kawasaki needs to pay attention to the complaints and listen to the suggestions offered by the riders. I sure wish that Kawasaki would bring back the 1552CC Nomad but add a bigger fuel tank.

[Sin City Stan]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

I'm picky but there's actually 148cc difference between the 1600 and 1700. The 1600 is only 1552cc.

OK, instead of 6 cubic inches it's 9 cubic inches larger. Doesn't sound like much now, does it.

[gnomad]

Originally Posted by R_W_B

They say on the Nomad 1700 you shouldn't even hardly be in 5 gear at 60mph, definitely not 6th gear until above 70 or so.

Just who is "they"? Certainly not Kawasaki engineers. Unless you like to act like you are riding a race bike, the Voyager/Vaquero/Nomad will run all day at 50-70 in sixth gear and easily accelerate in that range, unless you feel the need to blow around a slower moving vehicle as fast as possible then you would need to downshift.

[Gandalf]

Look at the shift points in the owners manual: They want you in 6th gear by 40 mph if I remember correctly----Good luck on that.

I don't really agree with that "easily accelerate" statement unless you call easily meaning shake and shudder eventually to a faster speed. 70 mph is fine for a somewhat smooth roll-on but certainly not 50 mph.

I don't remeber my cousins 2007 (?) Vulcan 1600 acting like that but it was only a 5 speed.

I like a HIGH overdrive for extended cruising so I suppose I could get used to it and just downshift to pass.

I'm not dissin' anyones ride just sharing my experience with the Vaquero.

Sam:)

[ponch]

Originally Posted by majeff

I don't know why Kawasaki didn't keep the Nomad with the 1552 cc setup and offer what they have presently. I know of quite few bike riders that still want the old Nomad because the new designed bikes are lacking. I know some of the people that belong to this forum that still have the old Nomad to keep in line with the Bagger rules but have bought better bikes like BMW, Goldwing and Harley. Kawasaki needs to pay attention to the complaints and listen to the suggestions offered by the riders. I sure wish that Kawasaki would bring back the 1552CC Nomad but add a bigger fuel tank.

For me it was two things: I always had a hankering for a beemer and I wanted something with a little more refinement. There's nothing wrong with the 1600 I had, just wanted more and something different. That said, Kawasaki isn't marketed as a premium bike, so they have limitations as to what will go on the bike and what won't. Even the C14 doesn't have cruise control, which is nuts and the Vaquero and Nomad don't have ABS in this country.

That said, the must haves for me in any bike I get after this one is: Cruise control, ABS (I prefer the partial integral to the linked system), on board computer and: fuel range of at least 250 miles, power to weight ratio of no worse than 6:1 and a suspension that can give a smooth ride on more than just smooth blacktop.

Not everyone has the same requirements and I'd bet Kawasaki is just aligning with the requirements they believe are for prospective buyers. If they don't make a bike someone would buy, they'll never know and not care really. Believe me, there is plenty of bitching and moaning by beemer owners and BMW doesn't give a crap or so it seems. It makes you wonder if any manufacturer listens to people that already bought their products.

[R_W_B]

Originally Posted by Sin City Stan

Welcome from Sin City, Nevada.

By your own admission there is a 200 lb. difference with only 100cc additional displacement. The 1700s can be made to go as demonstrated by Ray however, the weight difference is almost like riding two up and trying to keep up with a single rider.

You have to decide what type of riding you plan on doing. The stock 1700s don't sound like they're for you unless you're willing to modify.

Good Luck on your quest.

This is true, but even with my wife on the back of my Bob it does not feel anywhere near the 1700 sluggishness of the one I rode yesterday.

Originally Posted by ponch

loud≠power. There are plenty bikes out there that are quiet that make plenty power. It's a question of design and engineering. Sure you can add air kits, fuel controllers, port heads and add aftermarket exhausts, but after all is said and done, sometimes it's better to get something that has what you want out of the box.

That said, I have ridden a Voyager and an Ultra with a 96. Damned if I could tell the difference in power.

My guess is that Kawasaki wanted to build an engine that is reliable first and foremost, especially after the issues with the V2K. There's a guy on the Delphi forum that has a 2009 Voyager and he's put close to 200K miles on it. I imagine Kawasaki did something right.

I hope you are right. I've got an appointment to ride a New Road King Saturday so I will see for myself (even though I don't think I can afford it either way)

Originally Posted by gnomad

Just who is "they"? Certainly not Kawasaki engineers. Unless you like to act like you are riding a race bike, the Voyager/Vaquero/Nomad will run all day at 50-70 in sixth gear and easily accelerate in that range, unless you feel the need to blow around a slower moving vehicle as fast as possible then you would need to downshift.

Originally Posted by Gandalf

Look at the shift points in the owners manual: They want you in 6th gear by 40 mph if I remember correctly----Good luck on that.

I don't really agree with that "easily accelerate" statement unless you call easily meaning shake and shudder eventually to a faster speed. 70 mph is fine for a somewhat smooth roll-on but certainly not 50 mph.

I don't remeber my cousins 2007 (?) Vulcan 1600 acting like that but it was only a 5 speed.

I like a HIGH overdrive for extended cruising so I suppose I could get used to it and just downshift to pass.

I'm not dissin' anyones ride just sharing my experience with the Vaquero.

Sam:)

In response to the two above posts, I was going on what the Kawa dealer told me when I road the 1700 Nomad. So if the manual says that then I was in error (and the dealer also).

However I can tell you this, my Harley is a six speed and if I put it in 6th gear at 50 mph and roll on the throttle, it won't vibrate or struggle, but it won't really go much either. Drop it down to 5th and that's another story.

I don't usually shift into 6th gear on my Harley (96ci) until I'm at 60mph or above. If I roll on "2nd " gear hard, I'm approaching 60mph as I hit 3rd.

[Top Cat]

Originally Posted by ponch

That said, the must haves for me in any bike I get after this one is: Cruise control, ABS (I prefer the partial integral to the linked system), on board computer and: fuel range of at least 250 miles, power to weight ratio of no worse than 6:1 and a suspension that can give a smooth ride on more than just smooth blacktop.

Jim, does anyone make a bike with those requirements at this time?
Just curious. I still haven't decided what my next bike is going to be.